I need to listen to ATR more often

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Look, would I rather see her facing males before the BC Classic? Sure. But in an age when pretty much every Grade I winner is a candidate for "He/She's done enough" and whisked off to the breeding shed, I'm EXTREMELY glad that they brought Zenyatta back to race again.

--Dunbar

You can't compare bringing back a mare to race to a colt being sent to the shed, it's just not realistic whatsoever. Was it good for the game for them to bring her back? Of course, but can't we get her to try at least an interesting race here and there prior to the BC? Hol Gold Cup? Pacific Classic? For God sake, maybe even the Goodwood?

NT

[slotdirt]

Folks who think she was unretired for anything other than a 2010 victory parade and some sort of potential lifetime achievement Eclipse award are delusional.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Personal Ensign wasn't, as far as I know, even considered for the BC Classic. (I certainly don't fault anyone for THAT decision--running against Alysheba would have been daunting, to say the least.) BUT, Zenyatta's camp has set the BC Classic as their year-end goal regardless of who else is heading there. Likewise, they announced the Apple Blossom date well ahead of time REGARDLESS of who else was going to show up there.

Despite that, there is all this relentless whining about the schedule her connections have chosen for her. She's already won Grade I's on both synthetic and dirt, and we somehow just get more whining. What a bunch of cup-half-empty nonsense!

We have a 6-year-old mare that in the hands of 95% of owner/trainer would have been retired (and stayed retired) after being the first mare to win the BC Classic. Instead of retirement, we have the unexpected pleasure of watching this excellent mare run another half dozen times, including two trips east. Despite all of this that we could and should be absolutely savoring, we get a surprising number of otherwise sane people who jump at any opportunity to nitpick Zenyatta's accomplishments.

--Dunbar

i don't think too many are nitpicking...until someone says she's the best ever, or when someone says she should be/should have been horse of the year. that's the type of stuff that gets her accomplishments and schedule scrutinized, and deservedly so.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't think too many are nitpicking...until someone says she's the best ever, or when someone says she should be/should have been horse of the year. that's the type of stuff that gets her accomplishments and schedule scrutinized, and deservedly so.

If that were true, I'd completely agree with you, Danzig. If it's just an argument about whether she's THE all-time best mare, I'll be the first to look at the choice of races, the level of competition. (As an aside that Cannon Shell might appreciate, I never forgave Floyd Patterson for the way he ducked Liston and others for so many years.)

But people here are denying that Zenyatta is even one of the best fillies/mares we've seen in the last 30 years. That is patently ridiculous, IMO.

So, rather than celebrating the fact that two of the best fillies of our time have mangaged to stay healthy and out of the breeding shed, we have countless posts tearing down one or the other.

--Dunbar

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

If that were true, I'd completely agree with you, Danzig. If it's just an argument about whether she's THE all-time best mare, I'll be the first to look at the choice of races, the level of competition. (As an aside that Cannon Shell might appreciate, I never forgave Floyd Patterson for the way he ducked Liston and others for so many years.)

But people here are denying that Zenyatta is even one of the best fillies/mares we've seen in the last 30 years. That is patently ridiculous, IMO.

So, rather than celebrating the fact that two of the best fillies of our time have mangaged to stay healthy and out of the breeding shed, we have countless posts tearing down one or the other.

--Dunbar

I dont see anyone denying that she is one of the best mares that we have seen. The fact is that thay have/had a chance to make the point that she arguably could be the best but would rather hang their hat on a meaningless win streak. It isnt a coincidence that this winning streak stuff came about recently. If Mr Frisky had been injured and retired after winning the SA Derby and 16 in a row would we have been proclaiming him one of the all time greats?

And when a dudes nickname is "Pretty boy" you have to assume that ducking is in his nature

[tiggerv]

Nobody knows how good Zenyatta really is because of how she has been protected by the Mosses/Sheriffs. She is impossible to judge and super fans and haters are going to continue to make ridiculous comparisons or unfairly trash her because of it. Fans and doubter should all be in agreement that it's time to see her really challenged and give us some perspective on her career.

The Mosses have their meaningless 17 in a row record so there is no reason to hold back anymore. If they want to keep her undefeated, then retire her now, because she nearly lost to a juiced up cripple last weekend on her home track. That would have done much more to tarnish her rep then a loss to Rachel or QR or even Blame on the dirt. She should have been in the Foster running against males on the BC track if they are really preparing for a BCC defense. This Vanity-Hirsch-Lady's Secret pupu platter every year is ridiculous.

Ship her and run the Whitney - Woodward - BCC and see how good she really is. QR is going to run all three and I believe Blame is pointed towards the Whitney. Since Rachel appears to be back in form, that windbag Jess Jackson should do the same thing. If the Mosses and Jess Jackson really want to do something for the sport instead of talking a big game, then getting the best horses and biggest names running against each other multiple times would do it.

[smuthg]

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/byk-disses-zenyatta/

I must say, I'm more in the Steve Davidowitz camp...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Personal Ensign wasn't, as far as I know, even considered for the BC Classic. (I certainly don't fault anyone for THAT decision--running against Alysheba would have been daunting, to say the least.) BUT, Zenyatta's camp has set the BC Classic as their year-end goal regardless of who else is heading there. Likewise, they announced the Apple Blossom date well ahead of time REGARDLESS of who else was going to show up there.

Despite that, there is all this relentless whining about the schedule her connections have chosen for her. She's already won Grade I's on both synthetic and dirt, and we somehow just get more whining. What a bunch of cup-half-empty nonsense!

We have a 6-year-old mare that in the hands of 95% of owner/trainer would have been retired (and stayed retired) after being the first mare to win the BC Classic. Instead of retirement, we have the unexpected pleasure of watching this excellent mare run another half dozen times, including two trips east. Despite all of this that we could and should be absolutely savoring, we get a surprising number of otherwise sane people who jump at any opportunity to nitpick Zenyatta's accomplishments.

--Dunbar

you probably enjoy preseason football as well

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and it's interesting the comparison to personal ensign. she didn't get HOY either....


and i don't recall mr. phipps and shug bitching about it.


you want to be the best? beat the best. run a top campaign. don't stay in your backyard and say you're king of the hill. that's what is required to be an all-timer.

I don't think the Mosses or Shireffs ever claimed that Zenyatta was as good as Secretariat or anything like that. They know she's a mare and they treat her like a mare for the most part.

If they really thought she was as good as Secretariat, I'm sure they would be running her against the boys more often.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I don't think the Mosses or Shireffs ever claimed that Zenyatta was as good as Secretariat or anything like that. They know she's a mare and they treat her like a mare for the most part.

If they really thought she was as good as Secretariat, I'm sure they would be running her against the boys more often.

not sure why you brought up secretariat, i didn't, and if they didn't, what's the connection? i only mentioned personal ensign...
however, i do know that they were angry and disappointed that she didn't get that eclipse, and know shirreffs commented on it recently. if they wanted that, they should have done more to get it...the horse could have done it, had they entered her where they needed to. they didn't, but wanted the reward anyway. i give them props for going to the bcc, i didn't expect it.

as for her being a mare and being treated like one, i'm not sure what that's supposed to mean....this sport, more than any, is where the girls can take on the boys, with success. i do not believe for a moment that taking on the opposite sex can be more of a detriment than staying with your own. zenyatta is a big girl, she can take care of herself. if they wish to play it safe, they can't expect to be treated as taking risks.

also, neither rachel or goldikova are secretariat reborn, and they take on males.