Invasor, Excitement?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

You're going to be a rich man or woman, Todko. If I felt as strongly as you do, I'd be loading up against Bernardini in the JCGC. Since you have no doubt that Invasor will beat Bernardini, I trust you will be betting the farm on that proposition.

Off the top of my head, I'd say there's maybe a 1/3 chance that Invasor will finish ahead of Bernardini. It's not going to shock me either way. However, it WOULD shock me if Invasor wins by 8. It would not shock me if Bernardini wins by 8. That's the difference to me. We've probably seen the best or nearly the best from Invasor. We don't know what Bernardini's best is yet.

--Dunbar

[boswd]

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

To use the excuse that Brother Derek and SNS were spent is nonsense. They were not the better horse that day at all. In fact Brother Derek has been nothing since racing outside of Cali. Are they the only two horse in history to ever run in derby Preps and run in the first two legs of the TC? Look at Afleet Alex's run last year. Ran in three derby Preps and all three TC's races. To say they were "tired" as an excuse is just that an excuse. They were beaten soundly by a much better horse. At if you research boodhorse.com and plug in SNS you will find the reason you have not seen him is because the trainer is keeping him as far away as possible from Bernardini. I dont' think he is a "Super Horse" yet either but to not give him any credit just because of SoCal absolutly dismal preformances in all the major races for 3 yr olds in just being stubborn to adimit you're wrong.

[Danzig]

invasor is certainly a bit forgotten. all the press in the east is on bernardini, and in the west you have lava man....leaving invasor as the monkey in the middle. horse has one defeat on an otherwise perfect, globe-trotting record. that one loss was to discreet cat in dubai, and that after leaving south america and going to florida, and then shipping to dubai. he was perfect before that trip, and is perfect since.

i'm looking forward very much to this race. yeah, he beat sun king...maybe he wasn't at his best after the spring he had and 'bounced', yet he still gutted out the win--after all, how many horses ship like that, and then run in the pimlico special for instance? let's not forget, discreet cat was already in dubia, only shipped here (not there and back), and just made HIS return. and then there's henny hughes, shipped over and back. how many starts has he had since arriving? well, you see my point.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

invasor is certainly a bit forgotten. all the press in the east is on bernardini, and in the west you have lava man....leaving invasor as the monkey in the middle. horse has one defeat on an otherwise perfect, globe-trotting record. that one loss was to discreet cat in dubai, and that after leaving south america and going to florida, and then shipping to dubai. he was perfect before that trip, and is perfect since.

i'm looking forward very much to this race. yeah, he beat sun king...maybe he wasn't at his best after the spring he had and 'bounced', yet he still gutted out the win--after all, how many horses ship like that, and then run in the pimlico special for instance? let's not forget, discreet cat was already in dubia, only shipped here (not there and back), and just made HIS return. and then there's henny hughes, shipped over and back. how many starts has he had since arriving? well, you see my point.

I know it. I love all three horses. And how many horses in history have pulled off the Pim Special, Suburban, Whitney and JCGC? To me that would be an absolute amazing feat!!!!!

[Danzig]

hell of a year...i much prefer a thread like this than one denigrating the horses that are running. seems every year their are people who only criticize these horses, and decry their lack of talent and wish only for the good old days.
these are the good old days!!

i remember in years past that people would say the horses weren't as good....and now we compare today's horses to those (good) horses!! go figure.

lava man, bernardini and invasor are having the time of their life. how many races this year between the three of them??? two losses out of the lot!

[boswd]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

hell of a year...i much prefer a thread like this than one denigrating the horses that are running. seems every year their are people who only criticize these horses, and decry their lack of talent and wish only for the good old days.
these are the good old days!!

i remember in years past that people would say the horses weren't as good....and now we compare today's horses to those (good) horses!! go figure.

lava man, bernardini and invasor are having the time of their life. how many races this year between the three of them??? two losses out of the lot!

I know it. It is too bad either Bernardini or Invasor will have a loss on the the 7th. I wish all three would race this weekend. Boring race year? some say.. this is absolutly fantastic. Just think about it You have the Best from the West and Two Beasts from the East. It doesn't get any better than this.

[Linny]

Invasor was the Uruguayan Triple Crown winner and HOY. He came here, to Kieran's barn in FLA over the winter. From there he went to Dubai where he ran 4th to Discreet Cat in the UAE Derby, his only loss. He returned to the US and won 3 G1's.
Not bad.

[boswd]

[quote=Linny]Invasor was the Uruguayan Triple Crown winner and HOY. He came here, to Kieran's barn in FLA over the winter. From there he went to Dubai where he ran 4th to Discreet Cat in the UAE Derby, his only loss. He returned to the US and won 3 G1's.
Not bad.[/QU

And not just three Grade I's Three of our countr'y more prestigious Grade I's with one more to go which may be the most prestigous one of them all. I think that is much more special feat than what both Lava Man and Bernardini have accomplised.

[Danzig]

and some healthy competition coming from europe. i'm very anxious to see what david junior can do....change of surface and such, but he's a good horse as well, and you can't ignore him.
this race saturday, race of the year (to this point) imo!

[Linny]

Invasor may be hampered in peoples' perception by his tendency to win my average margins. He doesn't seem to be the type to "blow them away" but always does as asked.

By example, Tiznow was a grinder, FuPeg- his contemporary- had a flashier style and tends to be more memorable. Let's face it Tiz was a better racehorse.

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

Hiya Blocky!!! Nice to see you havent changed at all....what does WW2 have to do with Invasor and Bernardini? Wait, I really dont care...

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

and your not really worthy of a dialogue with me, so what pagan.

Is that suppose to upset me Blockhead? Everybody knows who, and more importantly what you are....you want to display your ignorance like some perverse badge of honor that's up to you...you came here looking for a fight as always...isn't it enough that everyone makes fun of you at ESPN? I warned you about your tirades...they don't upset me but they do you no good!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

kind of reminds me of america in WW2, after 50 million europeans all killed one other, we show three years into the war, mop up the downtrodend and say look how great we are, wasn't that easy. ya i guess it was when the 50 million real army men where already dead, leaving the boys and retirees to fight against. and before you go off on that, its just used as a comparison referencing runnig against what is left not the first string that was once there.

Revisionist history at it's pinnacle. I guess you missed history class and had to rely on the cliffnotes.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Revisionist history at it's pinnacle. I guess you missed history class and had to rely on the cliffnotes.

No no, he just makes it up as he goes along.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by oracle80

No no, he just makes it up as he goes along.

It would be hard to make up something as wildly incoherent as some of what he's written in this thread. I loved the pagan rant:

Originally Posted by Secretariat

and as far as the devil worshiper somer is concerned, if he ever walked by a church he might ignite, the pagan no mind.
how can someone claim to have an intellect and deny being.

That has a kind of weird beatnik ring to it, or maybe something a Zen-chimp would come up with.

--Dunbar

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

All this hype and a 40-1 shot will beat both of them and i am gonna laugh my as s off!

[NoCarolinaTony]

Dear Steve,

This is more of an editorial:

A a fan of your "former" website, who love's your radio program, enjoy's the cue at the SPA, and especially enjoy listening and reading you're work and handicapping articles and just plain old hanging out shooting the breeze with you, I am having a difficult time with many of the current discusions threads. There appears to be lots of Bravado and insensitive types who enjoy putting people down others as they can hide behind a screen name and do it annonomously. It is great to talk horses and disagree, but then we get into WWII discusions put downs by people who have no idea of what they speak, people putting people down by being obnoxious over and over. We should ignore the childish behavior but I thought I'd take a crack at trying to get the website forum back to its intended roots and thats to discuss horse racing, wagering, ownership, training, jockey's (another brilliant discussion HEY MY GUY GOMEZ WON ANOTHER 3 Races so I'm a Genious- Your Guy JOHNN V sux...)

I know you don't have time to police this, but as you read the site we get more into Bravado speak and less and less intelligent horse speak and handicapping discussions with merit.

Perhaps you can set aside a thread for the mindless discussions and monitor the users some to get this back to a civil discusion of points / counterpoints instead of put downs and insults. Or at least lets have one dedicated thread to intelligent discussion about horse racing and handicapping, which would be more of a reflection of the type of person and human being that I know that you are rather than what is running rampant throughout the site today. It's hard to weed out the good stuff from the crap anymore.

NC Tony

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by NoCarolinaTony

Dear Steve,

This is more of an editorial:

A a fan of your "former" website, who love's your radio program, enjoy's the cue at the SPA, and especially enjoy listening and reading you're work and handicapping articles and just plain old hanging out shooting the breeze with you, I am having a difficult time with many of the current discusions threads. There appears to be lots of Bravado and insensitive types who enjoy putting people down others as they can hide behind a screen name and do it annonomously. It is great to talk horses and disagree, but then we get into WWII discusions put downs by people who have no idea of what they speak, people putting people down by being obnoxious over and over. We should ignore the childish behavior but I thought I'd take a crack at trying to get the website forum back to its intended roots and thats to discuss horse racing, wagering, ownership, training, jockey's (another brilliant discussion HEY MY GUY GOMEZ WON ANOTHER 3 Races so I'm a Genious- Your Guy JOHNN V sux...)

I know you don't have time to police this, but as you read the site we get more into Bravado speak and less and less intelligent horse speak and handicapping discussions with merit.

Perhaps you can set aside a thread for the mindless discussions and monitor the users some to get this back to a civil discusion of points / counterpoints instead of put downs and insults. Or at least lets have one dedicated thread to intelligent discussion about horse racing and handicapping, which would be more of a reflection of the type of person and human being that I know that you are rather than what is running rampant throughout the site today. It's hard to weed out the good stuff from the crap anymore.

NC Tony

Tony, Steve has done that already. It seems that people bicker quite frequently on almost every thread, and I would imagine that it gets tough for Steve to decipher the good from the bad.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Knowing Steve I sure he would try to do that. I'm in and out of this site so it's hard to keep up, and once you get into the mindless stuff and insults, It kind of turns you off from moving on to more. I know that's not what Steve has intended.

With the BC coming up and some of the best handicap races of the year, we should have some excellent discussions about handicapping.

I will do whatever I can to to help Steve!!

I thought perhaps I could cause a mini revolt to take back this site and get this back to where it should be, A first class site to discuss Horeracing.!!

NC Tony

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by NoCarolinaTony

Knowing Steve I sure he would try to do that. I'm in and out of this site so it's hard to keep up, and once you get into the mindless stuff and insults, It kind of turns you off from moving on to more. I know that's not what Steve has intended.

With the BC coming up and some of the best handicap races of the year, we should have some excellent discussions about handicapping.

I will do whatever I can to to help Steve!!

I thought perhaps I could cause a mini revolt to take back this site and get this back to where it should be, A first class site to discuss Horeracing.!!

NC Tony

Tony, Steve is trying to limit the BS but it's nearly impossible to keep up with every thread every day, esp. when an argument can explode from one innocuous (or in this case ridiculous) post.
Bethani