Why Lukas went downhill

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Well I disagree, if Pletcher has 200 or so horses, he has maybe 25 or so, max, still running at 4 or 5. What about Baffert, how many 4 or 5 year olds does he have running? Would you not agree that they are the three biggest when it comes to 2 and 3 year olds, and maybe add in Asmussen. How many 2 year olds does Frankel, Mandella, Drysdale run? Not many. They are different kinds of trainers.

That is true that Frankel, Mandella, and Drysdale are different types of trainers from Lukas. I agree with that. But even though they are different, they still do well with young horses. Mandella just won the Del Mar Futurity. He's won the BC Juvenille and the BC Juvenille Filly. The good trainers listen to their horses. Sure these guys want to win 2 year old races. Sure they want to win the Derby. But they're not going to push the horse if the horse isn't ready or if the horse is getting sore. That's my whole point.

I think Pletcher has more than 25 horses left out of 200. If that was all that he had left, he wouldn't be winning so many races with 4 and 5 year olds. He's won a ton of races with 4 and 5 year olds this year.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I know what Mandella has won, but it could go both ways. Lukas has won BC Classics, Distaffs, Sprints, Miles all with older. I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying about Mandella, Drysdale and Frankel. I may be a bit off with the number of older that Pletcher has, but I would bet it is no more than 1/3 of his operation, and that's how Lukas used to be. My point, and it was not to argue, was Baffert and Pletcher, to a slight degree are the same kind of trainer Lukas is, therefore their older horse numbers will never be the same with guys like Mandella or Frankel. Just like Mandella will never have the same kinds of numbers with 2 and 3 year olds as baffert and Lukas.

Baffert is somewhere in between. He is much harder on his horses than Mandella, Drysdale, Frankel, or Pletcher. Baffert works his horses very fast and they don't last nearly as long as the horses of those guys. But Baffert will stop on horses. You will see him turn horses out. He won't just keep running them after they have started to go bad. That is the big difference between him and Lukas. Baffert won't do nearly as well with older horses as Frankel and those guys, but he will do better than Lukas.

I think that Pletcher's numbers with older horses are just as good as Mandella and those guys. Pletcher is amazing. He does great in every category. He even does great with turf horses.

Frankel keeping Ghostzapper together was an amazing feat. I have never liked the guys from interviews, etc... but the guy can get them to run. BT claims its the juice. I think he is very patient and careful.

Even though Lucas is a hall of fame trainer and has so many records, I dont get the feeling he would be to upset if Barbaro or LITF were his horses. Next please kinda thing. Just my feeling about him now.

[Rupert Pupkin]

One more thing. Pletcher has won over 120 turf races in 2005-2006. I bet you Lukas didn't win 120 turf races in the entire 1990s.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Frankel keeping Ghostzapper together was an amazing feat. I have never liked the guys from interviews, etc... but the guy can get them to run. BT claims its the juice. I think he is very patient and careful.

Even though Lucas is a hall of fame trainer and has so many records, I dont get the feeling he would be to upset if Barbaro or LITF were his horses. Next please kinda thing. Just my feeling about him now.

Frankel rocks. If I had a horse in training it would go to him. I don't care about a trainer having people skills, it's horse skills that matter.

[blackthroatedwind]

Frankel is a great trainer but his " people skills " have alienated him from more owners than you would believe.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Frankel rocks. If I had a horse in training it would go to him. I don't care about a trainer having people skills, it's horse skills that matter.

One of very few trainers that wear jeans when their horse is the favorite in a 1/2 million dollar race, and get away with it. He could wear a speedo as long as my horse won and i would just have the cpu erase him LMAO

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by LOSE=GLUE

One of very few trainers that wear jeans when their horse is the favorite in a 1/2 million dollar race, and get away with it. He could wear a speedo as long as my horse won and i would just have the cpu erase him LMAO

It's way to early for the mental image of Frankel in a speedo! LOL

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I agree, Pletcher is great. I guess I grew up thinking so highly about Lukas, which is why I am defending him.

I hear you.