Girolamo

[The Indomitable DrugS]

This horse will run all day long. It's pretty funny that he's still never run beyond 8fs on dirt.

If pointed to a race like the Santa Anita Handicap - he'd be more likely than anyone to win that race.

[VOL JACK]

I guess he could also go to the Donn.

[blackthroatedwind]

Or Dubai.

[Betsy]

He's been a favorite of mine, but I didn't think he ran more than "ok" in the Cigar Mile...... I never thought it was "fair" to classify him as a miler based on an ill-advised journey out west, but he doesn't strike me as a horse that will thrive at longer distances.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

This horse will run all day long. It's pretty funny that he's still never run beyond 8fs on dirt.

If pointed to a race like the Santa Anita Handicap - he'd be more likely than anyone to win that race.

I realize he's by AP Indy and related to the great Super Saver, but is there something you've seen in his races or deciphered from his PPs that suggests he wants to go further?

I shouldn't really ask, as doing the total opposite of what Godolphin wants to do with a horse would probably be a very successful approach.

[NTamm1215]

He's one of a frustratingly long list of mis-managed horses by Godolphin.

This was a banner year for their ineptitude. I can't quite figure out what's the problem because Rick Mettee is an awfully sharp guy.

Between Sara Louise being rushed into a 9 week campaign to Girolamo debuting in a GI to Vineyard Haven totally falling off form to Regal Ransom having a campaign headlined by winning a N3X at Saratoga, it was just sickening. Thank God Hibaayeb won a disgracefully bad Yellow Ribbon and Girolamo won the worst Vosburgh in its history.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Betsy

He's been a favorite of mine, but I didn't think he ran more than "ok" in the Cigar Mile......

He was rushed along early - and still finished up as well as anyone late despite stretching out a quarter mile off of two 6fs sprints.

The older male division going long is as weak as ever - it's a complete and utter joke with Blame and Quality Road out of the way.

Like with the vast majority of A. P. Indy's - Girolamo's best game will inevitably be going long on dirt. While he has tremendous natural speed for an A. P. Indy .. he keeps having to be rushed along after a furlong or so just to hold position. That's happened in every single race of his this year. He won the Vosburgh inspite of it - because that field sucked.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

He's one of a frustratingly long list of mis-managed horses by Godolphin.

This was a banner year for their ineptitude. I can't quite figure out what's the problem because Rick Mettee is an awfully sharp guy.

Between Sara Louise being rushed into a 9 week campaign to Girolamo debuting in a GI to Vineyard Haven totally falling off form to Regal Ransom having a campaign headlined by winning a N3X at Saratoga, it was just sickening. Thank God Hibaayeb won a disgracefully bad Yellow Ribbon and Girolamo won the worst Vosburgh in its history.

They are so bad, and so inept, I really think that someone that is a rank amateur or novice/beginner in horse racing would make better decisions.

Which makes me wonder if they are sabotaging themselves on purpose.

I know that sounds implausible, but the way they run things, nothing else really makes any sense.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Betsy

He's been a favorite of mine, but I didn't think he ran more than "ok" in the Cigar Mile...... I never thought it was "fair" to classify him as a miler based on an ill-advised journey out west, but he doesn't strike me as a horse that will thrive at longer distances.

Yeah, mine too.
Because I toss him every time he runs with the utmost confidence.
I love those over bet/over hyped horses.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Yeah, mine too.
Because I toss him every time he runs with the utmost confidence.
I love those over bet/over hyped horses.

Girolamo's won 4 of his last 7 dirt races ... and he's the only A. P. Indy to ever win a Grade 1 stakes race at 6fs or less.

In terms of ability - I'm not sure there's another older male left in the country who I believe is much better than him.

Saturday was the first time I ever remember betting him in his career - and I bet virtually peanuts on him because he was coupled with the hopeless Vineyard Haven.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

He's one of a frustratingly long list of mis-managed horses by Godolphin.

This was a banner year for their ineptitude. I can't quite figure out what's the problem because Rick Mettee is an awfully sharp guy.

Between Sara Louise being rushed into a 9 week campaign to Girolamo debuting in a GI to Vineyard Haven totally falling off form to Regal Ransom having a campaign headlined by winning a N3X at Saratoga, it was just sickening. Thank God Hibaayeb won a disgracefully bad Yellow Ribbon and Girolamo won the worst Vosburgh in its history.

I dont think Mettee has much influence on where they run horses. As a matter of fact I dont think anyone in that organization says no to SM very often.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

He's one of a frustratingly long list of mis-managed horses by Godolphin.

This was a banner year for their ineptitude. I can't quite figure out what's the problem because Rick Mettee is an awfully sharp guy.

Between Sara Louise being rushed into a 9 week campaign to Girolamo debuting in a GI to Vineyard Haven totally falling off form to Regal Ransom having a campaign headlined by winning a N3X at Saratoga, it was just sickening. Thank God Hibaayeb won a disgracefully bad Yellow Ribbon and Girolamo won the worst Vosburgh in its history.

Respectfully you kinda left out Campanologist being 16th in the Melbourne Cup and Delegator 8th in the BC Mile.

Look at this...

http://www.timeform.com/godolphin/gd...5060&source=01

These are seriously good horses.

Or were...

I don't know what to think anymore.

I'm not defending anyone anymore.

Fin.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Girolamo's won 4 of his last 7 dirt races ... and he's the only A. P. Indy to ever win a Grade 1 stakes race at 6fs or less.

In terms of ability - I'm not sure there's another older male left in the country who I believe is much better than him.

Saturday was the first time I ever remember betting him in his career - and I bet virtually peanuts on him because he was coupled with the hopeless Vineyard Haven.

I bet Haynesfield in a cold exacta over Bribon.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

I bet Haynesfield in a cold exacta over Bribon.

I couldn't trust Haynesfield with Vineyard Haven in there ... he did a nice job of rating off of him and relaxing.

Give Haynesfield an easy lead and it's Katie bar the doors.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Girolamo's won 4 of his last 7 dirt races ... and he's the only A. P. Indy to ever win a Grade 1 stakes race at 6fs or less.

In terms of ability - I'm not sure there's another older male left in the country who I believe is much better than him.

I don't buy it. And not necessarily because I don't think he had the potential or the stamina to be a top middle distance horse, but simply because his time is over with.

Here's a horse, going on 5, that's made all of 11 starts, despite racing at 2, 3, and 4. Physical issues are probably a very real limiting factor here. Furthermore, whether you want to call it mismanagement or not, he's been kept for the most part around one-turn during his career and it would be quite a feat for the connections (who everyone agrees are inept) to re-develop this horse into a two-turn runner.

The progeny stats for AP Indy are a huge selling point, but looking at Girolamo closely, how many other AP Indy runners have his kind of natural speed (I don't agree with your "rushed along" comment)? He's constantly in the thick of it early at shorter distances, often under strong restraint from his jockey. He's been up close in nothing but fast-paced races with fractions of :45-:46+ and 1:09+. He almost certainly would be on the lead in races of 9f-10f. He appears to have little acceleration (Jersey Town left him for dead on the turn the other day) and no real "move". He's not a typical AP Indy plodder.

Visually, he's never really finished up particularly well. He was under a heavy drive just to make up a couple of lengths on two sons of sprint sire Speightstown this past weekend. He looked good in an allowance last year, but that just brings up another question mark...his class.

He's won 4 of his last 7 dirt races. Looked at the other way, he's lost the Cigar Mile, BC Sprint, and Forego...all open races He's won a couple of conditioned allowances, a 5-horse age restricted Grade 1, and held safe one of Oaklawn's finest in Riley Tucker.

I would point to that great barometer of future success, the now defunct Futurity Stakes, as further evidence of his "cut below" status. He was outrun by Charitable Man, Flying Pegasus, and Kensei that day, and faltered alongside the decidely non-Grade 1 colt Freisan Fire in what turned out to be a preview of failure for the following 2 racing seasons.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He was rushed along early - and still finished up as well as anyone late despite stretching out a quarter mile off of two 6fs sprints.

The older male division going long is as weak as ever - it's a complete and utter joke with Blame and Quality Road out of the way.

Like with the vast majority of A. P. Indy's - Girolamo's best game will inevitably be going long on dirt. While he has tremendous natural speed for an A. P. Indy .. he keeps having to be rushed along after a furlong or so just to hold position. That's happened in every single race of his this year. He won the Vosburgh inspite of it - because that field sucked.

I admit that I think they have done a lousy job with him......but I figure that he'll be retired anyway now that he has his grade 1. After Bernardini, I've learned not to get my hopes up with Godolphin.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I don't buy it. And not necessarily because I don't think he had the potential or the stamina to be a top middle distance horse, but simply because his time is over with.

Here's a horse, going on 5, that's made all of 11 starts, despite racing at 2, 3, and 4. Physical issues are probably a very real limiting factor here. Furthermore, whether you want to call it mismanagement or not, he's been kept for the most part around one-turn during his career and it would be quite a feat for the connections (who everyone agrees are inept) to re-develop this horse into a two-turn runner.

The progeny stats for AP Indy are a huge selling point, but looking at Girolamo closely, how many other AP Indy runners have his kind of natural speed (I don't agree with your "rushed along" comment)? He's constantly in the thick of it early at shorter distances, often under strong restraint from his jockey. He's been up close in nothing but fast-paced races with fractions of :45-:46+ and 1:09+. He almost certainly would be on the lead in races of 9f-10f. He appears to have little acceleration (Jersey Town left him for dead on the turn the other day) and no real "move". He's not a typical AP Indy plodder.

Visually, he's never really finished up particularly well. He was under a heavy drive just to make up a couple of lengths on two sons of sprint sire Speightstown this past weekend. He looked good in an allowance last year, but that just brings up another question mark...his class.

He's won 4 of his last 7 dirt races. Looked at the other way, he's lost the Cigar Mile, BC Sprint, and Forego...all open races He's won a couple of conditioned allowances, a 5-horse age restricted Grade 1, and held safe one of Oaklawn's finest in Riley Tucker.

I would point to that great barometer of future success, the now defunct Futurity Stakes, as further evidence of his "cut below" status. He was outrun by Charitable Man, Flying Pegasus, and Kensei that day, and faltered alongside the decidely non-Grade 1 colt Freisan Fire in what turned out to be a preview of failure for the following 2 racing seasons.

As to Girolamao, I disagree completely that he doesn't have acceleration. I've seen it in many of his races - maybe not this year, but it's been there. He's run several big races and he's usually finished up quite well, but this year they screwed up with him. He ran well in the Forego for a horse who'd not run in 10 months. He ran well in the Vosburgh. I think he's obviously off-form at this point, but he's still very talented.

He was 2 years old when he ran in the Futurity and he didn't run badly. Most Indy's improve with age, so they gave him time off and he came back brilliantly as a 3 year old. I don't see how his 2 year old races are an indication that he lacks sufficient class........

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Betsy

AP Indy sires mostly plodders? Well, I won't get into that.

I was describing the typical running style of his progeny.

As to Girolamao, I disagree completely that he doesn't have acceleration. I've seen it in many of his races - maybe not this year, but it's been there. He's run several big races and he's usually finished up quite well, but this year they screwed up with him. He ran well in the Forego for a horse who'd not run in 10 months. He ran well in the Vosburgh. I think he's obviously off-form at this point, but he's still very talented.

He's run several big races? He's 2 for 7 in stakes company with 4 unplaced efforts.

I don't see how his 2 year old races are an indication that he lacks sufficient class........

He was buried in the Futurity amid a field of future one-hit Grade 2 runners.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

He's not a typical AP Indy plodder.

Visually, he's never really finished up particularly well.

Most A. P. Indy routers aren't plodders. A lot of them have very good natural speed.

In sprint races - they break well - and start struggling to maintain position after a few furlongs.

After watching the Cigar Mile again - you're right - he wasn't rushed along like in the other sprints .. but he still was in a spot he wouldn't be in going long. He wouldn't have to worry about being 5th or so, in a pack of 3, and getting dirt kicked back in his face.

I think he'd get a ton of perfect trips at 9fs or 10fs - the way a Quality Road or Left Bank always would. I have no doubts about his ability to stay a distance against chumppy top competition in these rich 6 horse field stakes to come.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

In sprint races - they break well - and start struggling to maintain position after a few furlongs.

This was certainly true of A.P. Indy himself as a racehorse. In nearly all his starts, he broke on top and led for the first hundred yards or so before settling into a mid-pack spot. Though I wouldn't say he was "struggling" to maintain position.

I think he'd get a ton of perfect trips at 9fs or 10fs - the way a Quality Road or Left Bank always would. I have no doubts about his ability to stay a distance against chumppy top competition in these rich 6 horse field stakes to come.

Assuming the calibur of competition left, I essentially agree with you. However, I still think its likely that Girolamo is past his prime despite the sparse race record.

Also, Haynsefield and Morning Line seem like better candidates to fill the niche you're envisioning for him.