You call it: RA VS other great 3yo fillies

[The Indomitable DrugS]

When the year is over - how will RA's 3yo season stack up with the following greats?

We are not counting 2-year-old form ... which takes horses like Silverbulletday and Serena's Song out of consideration .. and weakens the case of horses like Ruffian and Go For Wand.

#1: Rachel Alexandra VS Dance Smartly ('91):

DS swept the Candian Triple Crown with ease. Beat open males in the Molson Million - a field that including Fly So Free. Capped it off by winning the BC Distaff.

Was 8-for-8 with all wins coming by 1.5 lengths or more. Wins that season ranging from 6 furlongs on dirt to 12 furlongs on yielding turf. Not an all-time strong type figure horse.


#2: RA VS Go For Wand ('90):

Go For Wand won 7 of 9 including 6 Grade 1's. One defeat an embarassing loss in the Kentucky Oaks and the other a heroic performance while holding on to a very narrow lead in the Distaff.

Ran monster figure in the Beldame that helped make her 3/5 favorite over Bayakoa. Though 2nd place finisher beaten less than 5 lengths that day - Colonial Waters - was just 1 for 7 that year and 0-for-8 the following year.

#3: RA VS Melair ('86):

The California Ruffian, Melair had the greatest 10 week season of all-time.

She broke her maiden on debut at Hollywood Park on April 25th. Won an allowance race by 9 lengths three weeks later with future Grade 1 winner Flying Julia finishing 2nd.

Made her Graded Stakes debut 2 weeks later and won the Railbird by 7.5 lengths. Two weeks after that she dominated Hidden Light - a multiple Grade 1 winner who swept that years Santa Anita Oaks, Hollywood Oaks, and Del Mar Oaks .. and is also the dam of Artie Schiller.

And two weeks after that - she took on males and oblitered them. Running fractions of 22 1/5, :44 3/5, 1:08 and 1:19 4/5 .. she stopped the clock in 1:32 4/5 and was just 3/5ths off of Dr. Fager's world record. She won by 6.5 lengths. The Lukas trained Southern Halo (sire of More Than Ready) was 2nd. That years champion 3yo male Snow Chief was 3rd beaten 11 lengths in the 12 horse field.

She never raced again in her life.

#4: RA VS Ruffian ('75):

Ruffian was 5-for-6 with 3 Grade 1 wins. Brilliant performances ranging from 6 furlongs to 12 furlongs.

Only knocks are that she was never challenged on the lead - and her early fractions don't appear to be extremely fast. Also - like Melair - she was regional. Four of the five wins coming at AQU and the other at Belmont.

[King Glorious]

I think Winning Colors needs to be in the discussion also. She had a really good season. She won the SA Derby and the Kentucky Derby and was probably even better when third in the Preakness. In the Derby, she beat Risen Star (champion 3yo) as well as horses that went on to win and place in many other grade one races. Forty Niner tried to go with her in the Preakness and was destroyed. Seeking the Gold couldn't run with her n the Derby but later was beaten only 1/2 length in the BC Classic by Alysheba. Her Belmont loss was really bad but that wasn't even her fault. She had no business being in that race. She beat Goodbye Halo (Demoiselle, Starlet, Ky Oaks, CCA Oaks, Mother Goose) and Jeanne Jones (Fantasy, 2nd BC JF and Ky Oaks) early in the year and then after people wrote her off after the Belmont, she came back to give Personal Ensign the toughest races of her career. She finished ahead of Sham Say in the Maskette, who came back to win the Ruffian next out and then was only a nose beaten by PE in the Distaff. Because of the way she ended her career, Winning Colors is often overlooked when these discussions come along but she's have run 98% of the 3yo fillies we've seen into the ground. The list of horses that she beat that year would make the list that any of these others you named pale by comparison. And that doesn't even include Personal Ensign.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

She was 4 for 10 as a 3yo... it's a case where record hurts her. She totally fell apart after the Preakness.

I think RA will have the best looking 3yo season after all is said and done.

The problem is - she has yet to face easily the 2nd best 3yo filly (Careless Jewel) ... she hasn't faced either QR or IWR .. and they are the only 3yo males this year who aren't goats. The older males suck .. and the Zenyatta match up might not ever happen.

It's all through no fault of her own .. but it's pretty remarkable that a filly like Melair .. who's career lasted all of 10 weeks .. probably saw both better female and male competition than RA ever has.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

She was 4 for 10 as a 3yo... it's a case where record hurts her. She totally fell apart after the Preakness.

I think RA will have the best looking 3yo season after all is said and done.

The problem is - she has yet to face easily the 2nd best 3yo filly (Careless Jewel) ... she hasn't faced either QR or IWR .. and they are the only 3yo males this year who aren't goats. The older males suck .. and the Zenyatta match up might not ever happen.

It's all through no fault of her own .. but it's pretty remarkable that a filly like Melair .. who's career lasted all of 10 weeks .. probably saw both better female and male competition than RA ever has.

That's ridiculous to use her record and say she totally fell apart after the Preakness. She lost by 1/2 length and a nose to Personal Ensign in the fall. That's your idea of falling apart?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

She was also beaten 42 lengths in the Belmont and 15 lengths in the Spinster.

She was defeated in 8 straight stakes races after the Derby.

I agree Lukas had her good in her two meetings against PE .. but she fell apart in a lot of races.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

She was also beaten 42 lengths in the Belmont and 15 lengths in the Spinster.

She was defeated in 8 straight stakes races after the Derby.

I agree Lukas had her good in her two meetings against PE .. but she fell apart in a lot of races.

Those two races were the only major blemishes on her 3yo record. Wins in the Derby, Santa Anita Derby (over Big Cap winner Ruhlman, the useful millionaire Lively One who won the Swaps and Goodwood, and Tejano), and Santa Anita Oaks. The other losses were by a neck to Goodbye Halo in the Las Virgenes, by 2.5 lengths to Risen Star in the Preakness, and the two losses to Personal Ensign. Winning Colors probably ran the best race of any horse in that Preakness; look where Forty Niner finished after racing her into defeat. To put the two losses to PE in perspective: she finished within a length of PE in their only two meetings; the only other horse to come within a length of PE was Collins in the Frizette.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

She was 4 for 10 as a 3yo... it's a case where record hurts her. She totally fell apart after the Preakness.

I think RA will have the best looking 3yo season after all is said and done.

The problem is - she has yet to face easily the 2nd best 3yo filly (Careless Jewel) ... she hasn't faced either QR or IWR .. and they are the only 3yo males this year who aren't goats. The older males suck .. and the Zenyatta match up might not ever happen.

It's all through no fault of her own .. but it's pretty remarkable that a filly like Melair .. who's career lasted all of 10 weeks .. probably saw both better female and male competition than RA ever has.

I think they needed to go Travers, I am not doubting her she is def. great, but I beleive QR is as good if not better.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I think they needed to go Travers, I am not doubting her she is def. great, but I beleive QR is as good if not better.

QR is a nice horse and you arent alone thinking he is really great, but to say Rachel has to beat Quality Road is kind of nutty.
QR to date has won one significant race. It was unfortunate he got hurt (twice) and he is really talented but he has so much yet to prove. Saturday's travers would be a good start as the field is loaded. I would say given the time and races hes missed, this is a must win for QR.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

She was 4 for 10 as a 3yo... it's a case where record hurts her. She totally fell apart after the Preakness.

I think RA will have the best looking 3yo season after all is said and done.

The problem is - she has yet to face easily the 2nd best 3yo filly (Careless Jewel) ... she hasn't faced either QR or IWR .. and they are the only 3yo males this year who aren't goats. The older males suck .. and the Zenyatta match up might not ever happen.

It's all through no fault of her own .. but it's pretty remarkable that a filly like Melair .. who's career lasted all of 10 weeks .. probably saw both better female and male competition than RA ever has.

To this point, what race would you say is Rachel's "best"?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

To this point, what race would you say is Rachel's "best"?

The Haskell was powerfull.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

To this point, what race would you say is Rachel's "best"?

With all the analytical factors baked in - I think they've all been pretty close to equal going back to her win in the Golden Rod stakes as a 2yo.

I would probably give a slight edge to her performance in the Martha Washington Stakes as the one which I felt was best.

When you consider it was Hal Wiggins off of a layoff .. and there is no way anyone could not have the figure significantly faster than Eight Belles 13+ length romp in that race the prior year .. that was just mind blowing stuff.

I think you've basically just seen the very slight and steady progression of a healthy 3yo horse since that race.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

With all the analytical factors baked in - I think they've all been pretty close to equal going back to her win in the Golden Rod stakes as a 2yo.

I would probably give a slight edge to her performance in the Martha Washington Stakes as the one which I felt was best.

When you consider it was Hal Wiggins off of a layoff .. and there is no way anyone could not have the figure significantly faster than Eight Belles 13+ length romp in that race the prior year .. that was just mind blowing stuff.

I think you've basically just seen the very slight and steady progression of a healthy 3yo horse since that race.

I think I'd say the Ky Oaks. Considering it's supposed to be the toughest 3YO restricted filly race of the year, and she won by 20 in hand with a fast time... and she was still with Wiggins.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

She was 4 for 10 as a 3yo... it's a case where record hurts her. She totally fell apart after the Preakness.

I think RA will have the best looking 3yo season after all is said and done.

The problem is - she has yet to face easily the 2nd best 3yo filly (Careless Jewel) ... she hasn't faced either QR or IWR .. and they are the only 3yo males this year who aren't goats. The older males suck .. and the Zenyatta match up might not ever happen.

It's all through no fault of her own .. but it's pretty remarkable that a filly like Melair .. who's career lasted all of 10 weeks .. probably saw both better female and male competition than RA ever has.

.......i was there, she was a freak. i agree about her competiton......however,i with winning colors, what she did will never be done again, win the santa anita derby in HUGE fashion and come right back to win the derby against horses that make this years derby crop look like 10 claimers.

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

.......i was there, she was a freak. i agree about her competiton......however,i with winning colors, what she did will never be done again, win the santa anita derby in HUGE fashion and come right back to win the derby against horses that make this years derby crop look like 10 claimers.

And if Dwayne didn't have his huge ego, he would not have run in the Belmont and would have probably beaten Personal Ensign twice. Personal Ensign is the most overrated horse in the HOF

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Slewbopper

Personal Ensign is the most overrated horse in the HOF

Even including Man O' War?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Slewbopper

And if Dwayne didn't have his huge ego, he would not have run in the Belmont and would have probably beaten Personal Ensign twice. Personal Ensign is the most overrated horse in the HOF

How to take a legitimate question/opinion and turn it into one of the most ridiculous posts in history 101.

[Slewbopper]

Hall Of Famer Bold N Determined with a career record of 20-16-3-0 is probably the most forgotten great filly of the last 30 years. She had a fabulous 3 yo season with 6 G1 wins and didn't even get an Eclipse, even though she beat the winner Genuine Risk in the G2 Maskette. '80 was a great year for 3 yo fillies. Another very good one was Love Sign who was third in that Maskette. She finished her career with a 23-16-5-2 record with 10 stakes wins, 4 of them G1s. Between Risk, BND and LS their combined career record was 58-42-11-4....57 of 58 ITM

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by Slewbopper

Hall Of Famer Bold N Determined with a career record of 20-16-3-0 is probably the most forgotten great filly of the last 30 years. She had a fabulous 3 yo season with 6 G1 wins and didn't even get an Eclipse, even though she beat the winner Genuine Risk in the G2 Maskette. '80 was a great year for 3 yo fillies. Another very good one was Love Sign who was third in that Maskette. She finished her career with a 23-16-5-2 record with 10 stakes wins, 4 of them G1s. Between Risk, BND and LS their combined career record was 58-42-11-4....57 of 58 ITM

Damn, that's a pretty serious crop of 3YOs...