Drug Free Racing

[geeker2]

Simple question: Why can't the Racing Secretary just simply start writing races for horses that race completely drug free?

We hear a lot of trainers/owners say they want the racing to be drug free..

That would be their opportunity to step up and show some leadership in a Sport that sorely needs it.

[ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Simple question: Why can't the Racing Secretary just simply start writing races for horses that race completely drug free?

We hear a lot of trainers/owners say they want the racing to be drug free..

That would be their opportunity to step up and show some leadership in a Sport that sorely needs it.

They'd never fill such a race.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll

They'd never fill such a race.

You have to look at the big picture. If such a race got some publicity and guys like Andy Beyer, Steve Crist , Steve Byk and the media got behind it..it would put the trainers/owners in a position to make a clear public choice.

You've got to start somewhere...

[dellinger63]

Drugs don't equal cheating and believe it or not are given for the good of the horse.

[deltagulf]

look its done everywhere no drugs but here in the states.
also the use of the whip doesn't have to be used to get the best out of the horses. look at the past history of racing no drugs and very sound horses. who raced more then what they do today.

[ALostTexan]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Drugs don't equal cheating and believe it or not are given for the good of the horse.

To an extent this is true, but abusing and/or overusing the drugs that are given to a horse is not for the good of the horse.

Yeah, injecting a sore knee of a horse with buvicaine can be good for the horse, as it will lessen the pain, but the risk verses reward isn't worth it and the horse can run through the pain.

Just one example...

[Storm Cadet]

Clean race...no such thing anymore...


Personally I'd like to see a race with ONLY JUICED UP horses from the usual suspect trainers...Big Purse,,,no wagering...no deterntion barn prerace or post race drug testing...and let the druggies slug it out for one race. Winner take all! Can you imagine the fractions and staying power they'd have! The only downside is we might have to get about 8 horse ambulances to get them off for the next race to begin.

It would be like the MLB Home Run Derby of years back...Giambi, Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Sheffield et al !!! Yo Big Mac -Pass the snake venom please!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Drugs don't equal cheating and believe it or not are given for the good of the horse.

I agree with you.
Most horses "run through the pain".
One of my fillies had a swollen hock. No big deal, no limp or favoring, but just to keep her moving forward, a little bute.
Drugs are part of the equation when used to help, not cheat.
When misused, the horse, or worse yet, the rider can get hurt.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

I agree with you.
Most horses "run through the pain".
One of my fillies had a swollen hock. No big deal, no limp or favoring, but just to keep her moving forward, a little bute.
Drugs are part of the equation when used to help, not cheat.
When misused, the horse, or worse yet, the rider can get hurt.

but isn't that exactly what we have now? a situation that us un-policable - everyone thinking the trainers is doing these things for the good of the horse, but in reality some abusing?

Doesn't drug free racing work in Europe?

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by geeker2

but isn't that exactly what we have now? a situation that us un-policable - everyone thinking the trainers is doing these things for the good of the horse, but in reality some abusing?

Doesn't drug free racing work in Europe?

I really don't know much about European racing.
But I can tell you that ace, bute, and other common "drugs" like lasix are part of the game here. Think mild tranquilizer for a jittery horse, ibuprophen whe mild pain (like human's take for a head-ache), and lasix to prevent cappilaries in the lungs from breaking during exertion.
Heavy drugs that would numb a horse's leg to the point where it can run in a race would be a big concern. The horse could break down, the jock could get hurt. So, to keep it short, if safety is the issue, I'd say it's better to be safe than sorry. Heavy pain killers and stimulants shouldn't be allowed.

[letswastemoney]

I agree with Geeker.

Too often the only reason put drugs in their horses is because everyone else is doing it and they don't want to lose an advantage. How do thousands of horses in Europe race without a problem with no lasix??? Yet every first time maiden in America immediately begins with lasix? I doubt every single maiden here is truly a bleeder. They just don't want to lose that 2 or 3 length advantage.

Having 1 or 2 races a day for clean horses is a great idea.

[geeker2]

Now all we need is a Champion

[Honu]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

I agree with Geeker.

Too often the only reason put drugs in their horses is because everyone else is doing it and they don't want to lose an advantage. How do thousands of horses in Europe race without a problem with no lasix??? Yet every first time maiden in America immediately begins with lasix? I doubt every single maiden here is truly a bleeder. They just don't want to lose that 2 or 3 length advantage.

Having 1 or 2 races a day for clean horses is a great idea.

How do you know its not a problem ? Did you know that they train on Lasix across the pond ? I have been around too many horses from Europe with damaged lungs from bleeding in races , you think its humane to let the horses basically drown in their own blood ?
If running without Lasix is so good for the horses then how come when the Euro horses come over for the Breeders Cup and other big races they run on Lasix ?

[geeker2]

Does that mean you would support the status quo for racing ? The public has just heard of snake venom..what else is being used that the general public doesn't know about? Isn't Lasix a performance enhancing drug? Somemhow this industry has to come to grips with this problem because it isn't just going to disappear.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Does that mean you would support the status quo for racing ? The public has just heard of snake venom..what else is being used that the general public doesn't know about? Isn't Lasix a performance enhancing drug? Somemhow this industry has to come to grips with this problem because it isn't just going to disappear.

There is always someone that will try to beat the rules in any venture where money is on the line. Snake Venom is not legal to use just very hard to detect. So a horse could very well be treated with snake venom and still pass the test in your "drug free" race.

"Drugfree" racing is no more possible than drug free football or baseball. The fact that the industry has done a pitiful job in legislating and policing the issue should be the issue. For without the correct rules and stringent testing any race that is called "drugfree" would be a farce.

[jwkniska]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Doesn't drug free racing work in Europe?

it works perfectly fine in Dubai.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Does that mean you would support the status quo for racing ? The public has just heard of snake venom..what else is being used that the general public doesn't know about? Isn't Lasix a performance enhancing drug? Somemhow this industry has to come to grips with this problem because it isn't just going to disappear.

Lasix is given to reduce EIPE , so I guess not having the horse bleed while being asked for its life is performance enhancing , I personally think its health enhancing for the horse.
There is so much stuff that was used before people had access to information that it would blow your mind and this goes back to the days of limited testing , so if you think people can get away with stuff now how do you think it was back then.
I dont agree with what trainers do as far as injecting horses throats with mepevicane before a race because they have breathing problems ( alltho it does seem more humane than slitting their throats for a myectomy ) and I dont agree with blocking horses legs so they cant feel anything , but to be honest in my 13 years as a jockey I rode quit a few horses that were blocked and never had any breakdown including horses that were heal nerved.
But back to the point , everyone always brings up the fact that in Europe they dont use race day meds , but no one ever mentions that they do train on them , they just have to make sure they are clear by the time they run.
Have you ever seen a horse gush blood from its nostrils? Not a very pretty sight to see a horse in that much distress when it can be prevented by giving them a simple dieuretic.

[scanman]

I was at a track in Groenedaal, Belgium. A horse came back to the paddock after a race and had blood flowing from his nostrils like it was water out of a faucet. Definitely not a pretty sight.

Another case, I've been watching a lot of "jump" replays from a New Zealand website and one particular horse caught my attention. He had a number of wins and looks to be a very promising hurdler. After one race where he finished second, he was found to be a "bleeder" and was banned from racing for 3 months. How would you like to be an owner of a horse that could not run because he bled, when the use of Lasix could overcome this problem and allow the horse to continue to compete.

Lasix and bute have positive uses, provided they are administered properly.

[TheSpyder]

I'm for all drugs in racing...for the horse player. I figure it will help my odds of picking a winner and getting a good price.

Besides, a bourbon now and then helps me, really calms me down, and I did much better with it Wednesday on it watching Sumwonlovesme.

Spyder (B)

on Bourbon

[ELA]

I have spoken out for a complete overhaul of the rules, regulations, etc. that govern this sport and industry. I am 100% for uniform and universal medication rules and the same for penalties, fines and suspensions.

However, with that being said, you will never achieve absolute -- even if you model after countries and jurisdictions that have zero tolerance. Reason being, as said, there will always be someone who is trying to gain the competitive edge. It might be on "this side" of the line, but eventually, it's always going to graduate and progress to the "illegal" side of the line. Why? It's simple. Money! Purse money, gambling, per diem, barn stake, and so on -- everywhere . . . Money.

Great concept. Not practical or feasible, but great concept. A so called drug free race does not exist today. Card the race at Fantasy Land Downs. There are numerous drugs floating around today thay the governing bodies cannot test for, so there goes your drug free race.

Personally, I think much of what we've seen, read about, formed committee's on, discussed, etc -- is truly not the real issue. There is no leadership in addressing and dealing with this problem. States won't work together. The thoroughbred industry needs to look no further than NJ and Toronto in order to see the progress that has been made in "catching" the criminals. How to "catch" them is one thing. Punishing them is something completely different, and NJ hasn't done such a great job on this front.

There are labs, testing facilities, tests, etc. that are much more progressive than what we know about in our industry. Of course it becomes a question of money, however, money can be a very small hurdle when there is leadership. I've attended enough of these committee and industry meetings to see that the sport and industry needs to "lead, follow or get out of the way"

Eric