Some past memories of horses who stunk, but not really

[MisterB]

War Emblem (2002 Derby winner) finished sixth in the Risen Star S. (G3) in mid-February.

Charismatic (1999) couldn't win a February claiming race.

Sea Hero (1993) was drilled in his first two starts at three, including a third-place effort behind a filly.

Thunder Gulch (1995) finished up the track in the Blue Grass S. (G2)

Go for Gin (1994) couldn't hit the board in the Florida Derby (G1)

Real Quiet (1998) wound up eighth in the Golden Gate Derby and Unbridled
(1990) was a bad fifth as the 6-5 favorite in the Tropical Park Derby (G2)

So what's this mean

It's only FEB.

[blackthroatedwind]

Go for Gin was a trip handicappers Derby horse ( and one of my few Derby winners....lucky or not ). The inside speed bias on Florida Derby day was outlandish and he did well to finish fourth all things considered. Then he faced a similar situation when second to Irgun in the Wood Memorial.

[MisterB]

I guess what I am leaning on, is horses get in trouble, a bad ride, stumble, or just don't feel good. So some of these preps can be tossed, if we study the films better, and pick out the show stoppers.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by MisterB

I guess what I am leaning on, is horses get in trouble, a bad ride, stumble, or just don't feel good. So some of these preps can be tossed, if we study the films better, and pick out the show stoppers.

I agree 100% and should have said so. Instead of all the " now " hullabaloo people should be watching these races like any others and hoping to cull useful information for the future. Most horse races aren't won by horses that won their previous start or starts and the Derby is not necessarily any different.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Mister B I get the point you are trying to make and I would assume it has to do with Hard Spun because you seem so intent on excusing his poor effort. Honestly, and I know I'll catch some heat here but I never thought War Emblem was much horse. I understand just how hard it is to win the Derby and Preakness, but he had a dream set up in the Derby. And Thunder Gulch was bad, very bad in that race at Keeneland, but that was one of the first things I learned about the old Keeneland. Many horses just flat out didn't like that track and there was always a good deal of money to be made on horses getting away from there.

Wasn't that also the year Wild Syn wired the Blue Grass with a ridiculously slow pace? It was one thing to get the early lead at the old Keeneland, but then to back the pace down like he did was some feat. Thunder Gulch didn't have a prayer that day with the slow pace. Hopefully I'm thinking of the right year. They went something like :13 for the 3/4s and finished up in 1:49 flat I think.

NT

[Buffymommy]

Thunder Gulch only had one bad race before the Derby so I really wouldn't call him a stinker.

Can I tell I love TG?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by MisterB

Thunder Gulch (1995) finished up the track in the Blue Grass S. (G2)

Yes, that race was classic Keeneland speed bias.

Giant longshot Wild Syn set a soft pace and went wire-to-wire.

The two best off the pace types in that year's Bluegrass Stakes (Thunder Gulch and Tejano Run) had no chance the way the race worked out. Tejano Run finished 3rd and TG 4th.

Of course, those same two horses finished 1st and 2nd in the Derby, and Wild Syn was nowhere.

The great racing press, didn't focus on the circumstancial stuff surrounding those two horses losses in the Blue Grass at all. Instead they focused on the idiotic things they normally focus on.

I guess Wayne Lukas had a Timber Country hat and a Serena's Song button on, and was talking up those two to the press all week, and his other horse naturally won.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Wasn't that also the year Wild Syn wired the Blue Grass with a ridiculously slow pace? It was one thing to get the early lead at the old Keeneland, but then to back the pace down like he did was some feat. Thunder Gulch didn't have a prayer that day with the slow pace. Hopefully I'm thinking of the right year. They went something like :13 for the 3/4s and finished up in 1:49 flat I think.

NT

You are correct, and like I mentioned in the prior post, the 2nd place finisher in the Derby also had a viable excuse coming out of that race.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by MisterB

War Emblem (2002 Derby winner) finished sixth in the Risen Star S. (G3) in mid-February.

Charismatic (1999) couldn't win a February claiming race.

Sea Hero (1993) was drilled in his first two starts at three, including a third-place effort behind a filly.

Thunder Gulch (1995) finished up the track in the Blue Grass S. (G2)
Go for Gin (1994) couldn't hit the board in the Florida Derby (G1)

Real Quiet (1998) wound up eighth in the Golden Gate Derby and Unbridled
(1990) was a bad fifth as the 6-5 favorite in the Tropical Park Derby (G2)

So what's this mean

It's only FEB.

Doesn't belong on this thread...as stated earlier, had only one bad race....
one of the most underated horses the last 20 years...in my opinion.

[blackthroatedwind]

I was there and I remember that day at Keeneland very well. I think Pat Kelly won the race after the Bluegrass on the turf. But what I most remember was Carl Nafzger's maiden who was coming off a trip at Gulfstream, and was a new gelding to boot, just getting up for second to a Ben Perkens firster in the 1st or 2nd race. The exacta paid $100. It was a VERY good day.

[Buffymommy]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Doesn't belong on this thread...as stated earlier, had only one bad race....
one of the most underated horses the last 20 years...in my opinion.

I totally agree with you about him being underrated. He is one of my all time faves.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Doesn't belong on this thread...as stated earlier, had only one bad race....
one of the most underated horses the last 20 years...in my opinion.

Your missing the point, that's all.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by MisterB

Your missing the point, that's all.

One blip in the Bluegrass on a speed favoring track hardly means, "stunk"
explain your point better?
Are you saying that HARD SPUN effort last out considers him as "stunk" and a rebound in the Derby?

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

One blip in the Bluegrass on a speed favoring track hardly means, "stunk"
explain your point better?
Are you saying that HARD SPUN effort last out considers him as "stunk" and a rebound in the Derby?

Could be that way, we will have to see. The point is all the above through in a clunker, and rebounded ok.

If you bet 100 to win, and the horse runs 4th, he sucks that day. No excuses, bias, bad ride, bad training, rain, etc ect, all excuses. Jocks and trainers should know what conditions, and track bias's are before the gate opens. So yes, he thru up a clunker, and didn't hit the board, so he stuck that day. And when a plan falls apart, like a stumbled start, or what ever, the jock has to make split decisons, and that's not easy at all. So we as betters, call them clunkers, bad rides, and trainer excuses.

As I stated above, we need to review the films, like a Coach of a football team, and find out what went wrong, and make adjustments

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by MisterB

If you bet 100 to win, and the horse runs 4th, he sucks that day. No excuses, bias, bad ride, bad training, rain, etc ect, all excuses. Jocks and trainers should know what conditions, and track bias's are before the gate opens. So yes, he thru up a clunker, and didn't hit the board, so he stuck that day.

Are you, by chance, related to Ken Wood from PaceAdvantage.com?