Trying To Make Money On Big Brown Today...

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dr. Fager just rolled over in his grave

It sounds like a clever retort. Jokes on me because I don't know who Dr. Fager is. Will you complete the joke for my purpose?

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

And what you say seems to be the sentiment of many. Would you be willing to say that on any given race, anything is possible (by any horse)?

I just think all of Big Brown's wins were impressive. I wish we really knew what happened at The Belmont? The Haskell was a comeback race for Big Brown and an impressive final furlong. He showed something he never had to before.

Alfleet Alex is my favorite horse of all time. But who did he really beat in the Preakness and Belmont other than Giacomo (a 50-1 KD winner). And don't say Scrappy T Yet most agree that Alex was a great horse. This is one example of why I don't buy into the lousy competition vs. Big Brown argument.

Really?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Really?

See the post above yours...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

It sounds like a clever retort. Jokes on me because I don't know who Dr. Fager is. Will you complete the joke for my purpose?

Do you follow any sports or movies?

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Really?

Afleet Alex doesn't leave a leagcy as a great horse? When did this happen?

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Do you follow any sports or movies?

I guess not close enough to catch this hidden gem. C'mon who is he?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

It sounds like a clever retort. Jokes on me because I don't know who Dr. Fager is. Will you complete the joke for my purpose?

http://www.pedigreequery.com/dr+fager

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Alfleet Alex is my favorite horse of all time. But who did he really beat in the Preakness and Belmont other than Giacomo (a 50-1 KD winner). And don't say Scrappy T Yet most agree that Alex was a great horse.

I don't think Afleet Alex was anywhere close to great, though the comparison with Big Brown is a good one.

[Cannon Shell]

You dont know who Dr Fager is but you can determine the greatness of a horse? Who did you measure him against? Cat Thief?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Afleet Alex doesn't leave a leagcy as a great horse? When did this happen?

Please tell me you're kidding.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

I guess not close enough to catch this hidden gem. C'mon who is he?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Fager

Not knowing who Dr Fager is is like being a baseball fan who never heard of Willie mays

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Afleet Alex doesn't leave a leagcy as a great horse? When did this happen?

LOL.

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

I guess not close enough to catch this hidden gem. C'mon who is he?

LOL again.

[SniperSB23]

Next we'll hear how Big Brown's Derby was a tougher field than the 67 Woodward cause he's never heard of any of the horses that ran in it.

[RollerDoc]

I don't think Afleet Alex was anywhere close to great, though the comparison with Big Brown is a good one.[/quote]

Afleet Alex (1 1/2 lengths from winning Triple Crown) + amazing recovery at Preakness + Top 3 yr old 2005 = Great Horse IMHO

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Afleet Alex (1 1/2 lengths from winning Triple Crown) + amazing recovery at Preakness + Top 3 yr old 2005 = Great Horse IMHO

So again, you don't take level of competition into consideration. I can see we're making progress.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Afleet Alex (1 1/2 lengths from winning Triple Crown) + amazing recovery at Preakness + Top 3 yr old 2005 = Great Horse IMHO

So barely cracking the top 100 3yos of the past 50 years is great to you?

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Fager

Not knowing who Dr Fager is is like being a baseball fan who never heard of Willie mays

Who is Willie Mays

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Who is Willie Mays

1/2 brother to Dr. Fager

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

So barely cracking the top 100 3yos of the past 50 years is great to you?

Top 100 over the past 50 years, possibly top 60 in the past 50 years. So yes Great but not Tony the Tiger Grrrrrrrrrrrrreat!

[Cannon Shell]

One of the things that makes it hard to debate things is that some of the newer fans dont have even a cursory idea about the history of the game and the great horses that have come before. That is why dopes like sdjcom are "depressed" when I talk about BB's race in a far from glowing fashion.

The sport of horseracing does a horrible injustice to itself when we proclaim greatness on horses like BB or even Curlin. The adoration process fuels egos like Jess Jacksons to the point where they actually believe their horse has done something wonderful by winning a few handicap races and beating a bunch of turf horses in Dubai. Big deal. The Arc thing was actually one of the few really unique things that Curlin could have done. The rest of the year figures to be a great big bore yet some in the media will continue to heap praise on Jackson for racing a horse that was virtually impossible to retire because of legal issues. Am i happy that the horse of the year returned? Sure. But that in itself and a couple of wins over overmatched listed type horses is hardly the thing that legends are made of.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Giacomo, and possibly others.

Would Street Sense or Hard Spun have had a problem? We can only guess, but probably not. I doubt either would have shown that explosive move that Big Brown demonstrated when he spurted away from the field, though.

Winning from the outside at Gulfstream was considered near impossible before this year's Florida Derby. Despite that, when Big Brown drew the outside at Churchill, many cappers (including some here) were ecstatic that they would be able to bet against him while the "clueless" would bet him regardless of post.

Here are some very good recent horses that didn't win the Derby from better post positions than Big Brown's: Cat Thief, Point Given, Medagia d'Oro, Came Home, Empire Maker, Afleet Alex. Granted, these horses faced more solid competition than Big Brown (though Point Given finished behind Invisible Ink and Thunder Blitz), but my point is that the Derby is not a 'gimme'.

There's no question that Curlin has run against significantly better horses than Big Brown. I, too, think he is the better horse and has by far the greater accomplishments. Dutrow's comments were idiotic. But Big Brown's 3 race run from the Florida Derby through the Preakness was impressive in its own right.

--Dunbar

in hindsight we now know how incredibly weak the fields were that Big Brown beat in the derbies. i went against him in the FD because of the post and expecting one of the others to step up. the thing about this year is that no one else has stepped up leaving it a one horse show so far in terms of 3yo's. How often does that happen? His moves are considered "explosive" because they were made against a backdrop of inferior horses who were backpedaling. put him in the 07 derby or Preakness or any previous year that had competition at the top end and I wonder how explosive his moves would look.
there was certainly nothing explosive about the last two races. He got the job down in the Haskell but I saw the whip come out before they had straightened for home. what the last races shows me is that its a different scenario when there is at least one other horse that can run on the front end with Big Brown that is capable of running in the 100 plus beyer range for 9 furlongs. He never faced that situation before and now that he has it doesn't look so easy anymore.

that 3 race run was impressive, I have said that over and over. what I will ask you and anyone else on the Big Brown bandwagon is, based on those 3 impressive races, would you say Big Brown is better than Curlin or that Big Brown is a great horse by historical standards. those are the types of claims being made and the ones I take exception to, not that he hasn't by far put in the most impressive races of any 3yo this year. Like I said previously I don't know how a knowledgeable person answers yes to either of those questions.