Most Talented 3yo since the 90's?

[pmayjr]

DowntheStrecth... sorry that I'am talking hypotheticals. But I still pose to you or anyone else the same question. IF LITF would've won the BC Sprint, would he at least be in the conversation?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

DowntheStrecth... sorry that I'am talking hypotheticals. But I still pose to you or anyone else the same question. IF LITF would've won the BC Sprint, would he at least be in the conversation?

No. Only by cheerleaders on the internet.

How about if Ghostzapper had run in the BC Sprint and duplicated his Vosburgh?

Hypotheticals in racing are especially ridiculous.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

DowntheStrecth... sorry that I'am talking hypotheticals. But I still pose to you or anyone else the same question. IF LITF would've won the BC Sprint, would he at least be in the conversation?

Pmayjr,
Don't get me wrong, I loved Lost in the Fog.
Had he gone on, your guess is as good as mine regarding the BC sprint.
Heck, if it was up to me, I'd love to see him go against Squirtle Squirt because they both won the King's Bishop.
Maybe when I die and I'm sitting in the big clubhouse box in heaven, I'll get to see that race.
I'm sure I'll be there for a very long time, and all the races that I wish coulda been might very well be.
I'll save you a seat next to me.
DTS

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I know this is all opinions, so what makes you think Holy Bull had more raw talent than Bernardini?


You're Accomplishment selection could make for another very interesting topic; What sire has the most combined accomplishments? (sire & individual race record)

I am a HUGE Bernardini fan, but he has unanswered questions. I could have listed him for the most raw talent, but I wanted to spread the love. Also, I believe Seattle Slew and Native Dance have the most impressive race /sire records. I give the edge to Slew, but that is to be expected since I am named for his sire.

Originally Posted by todko

There is some debate here about "talented" versus "accomplished". To me, the two go hand in hand.

The two go hand in hand because "talented" horses "accomplish" wins in major races. Sure, there are other talented horses who don't accomplish much (Ghostzapper at 3). It's a lot of conjecture to say such and such horse is so "talented" if the horse never actually wins anything major.

In the case of Ghostzapper, he made his case as an older horse more so than as a 3 year old due to nagging minor injuries in his 3 year old season. He was clearly one of the fastest horses ever. Since the '70s and early '80s (I was a kid then), his race in the Breeders Cup Classic clearly stands out as the most stunning performance I've seen.

Smarty Jones was very talented. His Preakness, coming after a Kentucky Derby win, was more impressive to me than a rested Bernardini's Preakness this year.

I don't think we saw anything near what Barbaro's talent really was. Derby fractions of :46 and change, 1:10 and change, and the 2nd fastest final quarter (only Secretariat ran a faster final) in Derby history. Never asked, never touched. Wins on turf, dirt, slop, you name it. Late foal -- 4/29. He had a lot of talent to show.

I'm not too high on Bernardini. Every race his main competition was injured (Barbaro, Sunriver, Bluegrass Cat) and his fractions in the Travers were nothing to write home about. And he was definitely urged in the Travers -- hit and urged. He only beat a staggering SNS by 5 lengths or so in the Preakness after skipping the Derby. Skipped the Belmont. Ran against nothing (with Sunriver and BC injured during races) since. His races looked more visually impressive than they really are. Maybe he'll prove me wrong later -- but I doubt it.

This year, other than Barbaro, Bright One is intriguing. 1:33 and change at CD for a mile. Saw him in person the following race and he is the real deal. He's a little green but he can fly.

Discreet Cat looks to be a possible freak. Definitely would have won the Travers with ease. Maybe he's a Ghostzapper type -- freakishly fast but cant' run very often.

Most talented 3 year old since 1990 -- probably go with Barbaro. 13th fastest Derby of all time -- 2nd fastest closing quarter. Came back on his toes nipping at the pony. It was like he was saying, "you call that a Derby? . . when we gonna race? . . . let's go around again". I don't think there was any 3 year since 1990 who could have beaten Barbaro at a distance.

Bernardini does not need your approval.

[repent]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I must say I disagree with this one....

But to each his own.

no worries moodwalker.
hell, Im not even sure I agree with what I posted about smarty jones and I typed the damn thing.

I just like to have fun with the smarty party.
he was a very fast horse.

Repent

[repent]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I'll never understand your point of view on this, repent.

Smarty was brilliant. I sobbed and sobbed after the Belmont and again when he was reitred.

He was breathtaking..... a national treasure, a cultural hero. Smarty got me hooked.

I just don't get how anyone could find fault with him.

you dont understand how anyone could find fault with him?

the damn horse wiped out just about my entire youbet account.
I was like 22 years old, still relying on my father for school, and then I had to explain to him why he had to add funds to my youbet account just so I could play Saratoga and Del Mar later that summer.

trust me,
you can learn to hate a horse real quick when he keeps beating you and you are too young, arrogant, and dont realize that you really have no idea how to bet.



Repent

[repent]

Originally Posted by sham

Perhaps you could share with us ten 3yos that were better than Secretariat.

Diamond Fury
Kings Consul
Tasmanian Tiger
Leading the Parade
Alajwad
Grand Reward
Fusaichi Samarai
whywhywhy
Line of Departure
Van Nistelrooy(both of them)

all horses who exceled on the track and lived up to all the hype.

[repent]

Originally Posted by merasmag

r u in texas yet? did u see lawyer ron at fairmount? did u see blockheadd's diatribe against interracial dating? how r you? hope u are well

what up mera.

yeah, been back in TX for a few months now.
missed Fairmont's big day, but I did watch it on TVG.
damn, that race went off at like 11:00 PM local time.
kind of late for a feature, but whatever.
what a crappy track.

Im going to head to Retama sometime over the next few weeks before their thoroughbred meet ends.
I was here for the close of Lone Star's meet and I hit that place up a few times.

blockhead had a meltdown about interracial dating?
lmao, that dude is awesome.
to each his own. I dated a black girl for a time and it realy was not any different, but whatever.

hope you are doing well Mera.
sorry your cubs suck.
actually, no Im not. lol, I hate them and if the Stros are going to suck, its comforting to know the cubs suck more.

good to talk to you again Mera.




Repent

[repent]

as for the whole Secretariat-was he the best ever or just well marketed debate-

I'll just say this.
He was good. real good.
was he one of the best 10 horses ever?
I have no idea. He did beat older which is the biggest test of a 3YO.
he also threw in some subpar porfmances and others like Native Dancer, MOW, and Ribot never had those bad races.

what I do find impressive about Secretariat's is his turf form.
he beat older on turf and did it easily.
you can have the triple crown. beating Sham says nothing about him from a historical perspective.
what leads me to believe that he was one of the greats is that he could run through the triple crown series, run at Saratoga, and then run 2 great races on turf.
thats a tough campaign for a 3YO.
the damn horse ran 21 times before being retired at the age of 3.
Bernardini, a horse who I believe is great, could run until the age of 5 and not run 21 times.

thats my take on it anyway.



Repent

[repent]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

This is pretty funny. I have a feeling you'll be adding The Green Monkey to this list as well. Although at least Grand Reward won the Oaklawn Handicap.

lol,
yeah he probably did not deserve to be on the list.
I just thought he was really overhyped.
hell, I think Good Reward is reallu overhyped for that matter.
never liked either one of them.

is the Green Monkey ever going to run?
I heard on TVG that he was going to run at Belmont.
was that put off?


Repent

[repent]

Originally Posted by merasmag

but i'll sell em to you for a dolla, the trib is restructuring as of this am, (maybe they do have a prayer)
i have been a sox fan for 2 full years now (minus 9 days)-i could take the cubs losing but when they dumped steve stone that was IT, the sox announcers have always sucked, so that's par for the course, and i am used to losing so i am not as depressed as most sox fans
and blockheadd is NOT awesome, unless u mean like a trainwreck
try to stay out of trouble- i gotta try to crash, fox did me a favor and switched the game to noon ...i hope i can be at the otb in time to bet half my profits on lawyer ron-goodite and sweet dreams

lol,
I hate the Trib.

well I just meant that he is a little out of his mind which is kind of cool.
I dont know the guy really and I really dont care what he thinks of ppl of different skin color dating.
now if he is one of those polytrack proponents, then I would have a problem with him.lol

Repent

[repent]

goodnight Mera.
thanks for staying up so I have someone to tallk to on here.

Ive got to make some time and get on here during the day more often when more ppl are on.


Repent

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I know this is all opinions, so what makes you think Holy Bull had more raw talent than Bernardini?


You're Accomplishment selection could make for another very interesting topic; What sire has the most combined accomplishments? (sire & individual race record)

Raw talent and combined accomplishments? Slew, hands down.

[sham]

Originally Posted by repent

Diamond Fury
Kings Consul
Tasmanian Tiger
Leading the Parade
Alajwad
Grand Reward
Fusaichi Samarai
whywhywhy
Line of Departure
Van Nistelrooy(both of them)

all horses who exceled on the track and lived up to all the hype.

Well yeah...that ten! No fair using such celebrateded "claimers". Besides this obvious group, can you name ten 3yos better than Secretariat?

[Hwjb]

Interesting, by asking for the most "talented" 3-y-o, you're suggesting that they don't always have had to applied that talent. I prefer to rate horses by ability rather than talent. A minor semantical point, I know, but important nonetheless.

Hawk Wing or Point Given in my opinion.

[sham]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Not to belabor the "off topic"...

Distance Man'O War Secretariat Margin

6 furlongs 1:11 1/5 1:09 4/5 +7 lengths
1 mile 1:35 4/5 1:33 2/5 +12 lengths
1 1/16 1:44 4/5 1:42 4/5 +10 lengths
1 1/8 1:49 1/5 1:45 2/5 +19 lengths
1 3/16 1:56 3/5 1:53 2/5 +16 lengths
1 ¼ 2:01 4/5 1:59 flat +14 lengths
1 3/8 2:14 1/5 2:12 1/5 +10 lengths
1 1/2 2:28 4/5 2:24 flat +24 lengths
1 5/8 2:40 4/5 2:37 4/5

Now back to "The most talented 3yo since the 90's"

You were just joking with this post...weren't you?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I'll never understand your point of view on this, repent.

Smarty was brilliant. I sobbed and sobbed after the Belmont and again when he was reitred.

He was breathtaking..... a national treasure, a cultural hero. Smarty got me hooked.

I just don't get how anyone could find fault with him.

repent admitted to me at one point that he didn't like smarty because he hadn't picked him to win...so of course the horse proved him wrong.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by JJP

Talent is meaningless. Its all about accomplishment. To many, Easy Goer was more "talented" than Sunday Silence. Yet SS accomplished more. People are obsessed with raw talent. The QB who can air it out 70 yards, the MLB pitcher who can hit the high 90s on the radar gun, the WR with 4.3 speed. But what good is it if the results aren't there?

excellent point! talent doesn't earn purses, or pay the bills.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I know this is all opinions, so what makes you think Holy Bull had more raw talent than Bernardini?


You're Accomplishment selection could make for another very interesting topic; What sire has the most combined accomplishments? (sire & individual race record)

what sire? it would have to be between native dancer, northern dancer, seattle slew for more modern horses. domino if you go way back. bold ruler is another who excelled on dirt and in the shed.
i guess out of those i just listed, i'd go with northern dancer. dual classic winner, and a worldwide influence on the breed.