Is it just me or is Godolphin winning everything

Originally Posted by oracle80

Dinner in Louisville after the Cup. Loser pays, like to meet you anyway.

I'll take that deal...Likewise, It'd be my pleasure to meet you..

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

85%??...Wow...doubt it...he wasn't even close to the best of his generation..Afleet Alex would have urinated on him (excuse my cajun)..he blossomed at year's end and finished nicely, but I don't give him that much credit..

I know Discreet Cat and Bernardini are more talented than Flower Alley....we'll see

I'd actually like to see Discreet Cat run more than one every 6 months, but thats just a personal perference.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

85%??...Wow...doubt it...he wasn't even close to the best of his generation..Afleet Alex would have urinated on him (excuse my cajun)..he blossomed at year's end and finished nicely, but I don't give him that much credit..

I know Discreet Cat and Bernardini are more talented than Flower Alley....we'll see

Based on speed figures, and since Afleet Alex didn't race after the Belmont that is all we have, it is far from clear that Afleet Alex was better than the Flower Alley we saw in Saratoga and the BC. While I tend to agree that had he stayed healthy, and logically progressed, Afleet Alex would have been the better of the two, but at best that margin would have been minimal.

Don't even bother attempting to use the Derby as an example, as not only did Flower Alley improve immensely off his Derby performance, he also ran exceptionally well in that race. He was forced to make a suicidal premature move when Chavez sent him into a drive on the backstretch and then got caught behind the tiring Spanish Chesnut. His performance was clearly an indication of good things to come.

[brockguy]

demi defo knows his stuff, gets coolmore on occasions multiple champs a year at decent prices, better than ferguson at his job. add to that, godolphin like to open their checkbook every year and try to purchase horses in training after good or average seasons. coolmore rarely do but are more successful at that too.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Wrong.

Discreet Cat is NOT running in the Dwyer and is being pointed to the Jim Dandy with Bernardini being pointed to the Haskell.

Source?..I've heard differently...

[blackthroatedwind]

I don't think I was revealing a major piece of news. But my sources are many.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Joel but whose money has been smarter to this point?

True, but money will prevail over the ong term...I've seen the trend move more and more towards Darley, especially this year....Coolmore runs a smarter operation because they understnd racing better than Darley does....Demi O'Byrne is a genius at picking out horses...unbelievable talent that guy has...he is a god and the brains behind that entire operation...he does a lot better than Ferguson with less resources.

The bottomline here is that Darley will ultimately pay more to be better....Coolmore actually has limits...Darley is the only irrational business in our industry that has no limits on what they will or can pay for a horse(s).

Originally Posted by brockguy

demi defo knows his stuff, gets coolmore on occasions multiple champs a year at decent prices, better than ferguson at his job. add to that, godolphin like to open their checkbook every year and try to purchase horses in training after good or average seasons. coolmore rarely do but are more successful at that too.

Demi has been told to me by several people with a good eye themselves to be the most amazing judge of horseflesh alive, and maybe ever.

[blackthroatedwind]

Doesn't the Godolphin feud with Coolmore stem from what they perceive to be questionable business ethics involving the sales? Perhaps it also has to do with their aggressive breeding of their top stallions to in excess of 250 mares worldwide.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

True, but money will prevail over the ong term...I've seen the trend move more and more towards Darley, especially this year....Coolmore runs a smarter operation because they understnd racing better than Darley does....Demi O'Byrne is a genius at picking out horses...unbelievable talent that guy has...he is a god and the brains behind that entire operation...he does a lot better than Ferguson with less resources.

The bottomline here is that Darley will ultimately pay more to be better....Coolmore actually has limits...Darley is the only irrational business in our industry that has no limits on what they will or can pay for a horse(s).

Joel.
Only when he drops the dream of having a Derby winner come from Dubai. I agree, if he ever decides I'm gonna hire Baffert, Pletcher, Mott, Dutrow, etc to just train my purchases then yes. But until then he wont surpass Coolmore. And matching Bin Suroor against Aidan is like matching me with Brad pitt in contest to pick up women. Neither I nor Saeed have a chance.

Originally Posted by brockguy

cunningham, the sheikhs are doing themselves any favors by bouycotting coolmore stallions, how are they supposed to challenge coolmore without their stallions. very bad move!

It goes two ways though...Coolmore won't buy any Elusive Qualities, future Bernardini's, Shamardals etc....Yes, Coolmore has great studs, but they don;t have Storm Cat...or A.P. Indy....or El Prado..or Awesome Again...or Ghostzapper...or Seeking the Gold...or Gone West...or Smarty Jones...or Empire Maker...or Dynaformer...get the point?

They'll survive because they'll by the best 'individuals' at auction by all non-Coolmore stallions...

Originally Posted by oracle80

I'd actually like to see Discreet Cat run more than one every 6 months, but thats just a personal perference.

Me too, but that means that he would be running more regularly than Flower Alley has this year, wouldn't it?

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Based on speed figures, and since Afleet Alex didn't race after the Belmont that is all we have, it is far from clear that Afleet Alex was better than the Flower Alley we saw in Saratoga and the BC. While I tend to agree that had he stayed healthy, and logically progressed, Afleet Alex would have been the better of the two, but at best that margin would have been minimal.

Don't even bother attempting to use the Derby as an example, as not only did Flower Alley improve immensely off his Derby performance, he also ran exceptionally well in that race. He was forced to make a suicidal premature move when Chavez sent him into a drive on the backstretch and then got caught behind the tiring Spanish Chesnut. His performance was clearly an indication of good things to come.

Afleet Alex > Flower Alley .........period

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Me too, but that means that he would be running more regularly than Flower Alley has this year, wouldn't it?

He raced a lot last year. Like i said, in heads up match gimme pletcher agaisnt suroor at 1-9. I'll lay it.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Demi has been told to me by several people with a good eye themselves to be the most amazing judge of horseflesh alive, and maybe ever.

I can't argue that...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Afleet Alex > Flower Alley .........period

There's a sound argument.

I'm guessing you never tried that one on the debate team.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Doesn't the Godolphin feud with Coolmore stem from what they perceive to be questionable business ethics involving the sales? Perhaps it also has to do with their aggressive breeding of their top stallions to in excess of 250 mares worldwide.

Yes it does, and I know for a fact that they are correct (without me getting further into it)...while Demi is a master horse evaluator, he is NOT a saint...

I know for a fact that The Green Monkey probably cost Coolmore only about half of that auction price...I'll leave it at that..

[brockguy]

godolphin are upset that coolmore doesnt support their stallions (i.e, they dont buy their offspring) so godolphin did the same to coolmore. ironic considering their best horse last year was by a coolmore stallion!

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I know for a fact that The Green Monkey probably cost Coolmore only about half of that auction price...I'll leave it at that..

I would be more careful about what I describe as a " fact ", and I think the actual price was more like 60-70%, but we're on the same page.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Joel.
Only when he drops the dream of having a Derby winner come from Dubai. I agree, if he ever decides I'm gonna hire Baffert, Pletcher, Mott, Dutrow, etc to just train my purchases then yes. But until then he wont surpass Coolmore. And matching Bin Suroor against Aidan is like matching me with Brad pitt in contest to pick up women. Neither I nor Saeed have a chance.

True, but any trainer is dangerous with goiod horses in his barn....look at Eoin Harty, who I think is an absolute joke as a trainer...might be a nice guy, but he merely masquerades as a horse trainer, yet that hasn't stopped Dubai Escapade....I love betting against Harty because the public will bet him down and he is a horrible horseman..