Doubt They Run at SA.. UPDATE: Charles says synthetic out..

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Honu

Hey I was wondering if anyone could help me find articles saying how wonderfull and great the dirt surface was . Thanks in advance.

I don't think anyone is espousing a bad dirt course being put back in at SA. The hope is that a dirt course can be installed that will be safe and able to hold up to the elements. Realistically, this is a joke. There's been a grand total of 1.96 inches of rain recorded at SA from 1/17 thru 1/19. That is roughly the equivalent of what falls in an hour and a half of a strong thunderstorm in many parts of the country. Now there might not be racing until Saturday, if that? I understand there's more rain coming tonight but for crissakes, this is ridiculous.

On another note, when's Witty running?

NT

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Honu

Hey I was wondering if anyone could help me find articles saying how wonderfull and great the dirt surface was . Thanks in advance.

Paulick Report has interesting discussion of this today, how the interests of horseplayers, owners, track mgt, trainers differ, and how that plays into decisions about track composition. And about how Sheik Mo just put in synthetic surface.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Honu

Hey I was wondering if anyone could help me find articles saying how wonderfull and great the dirt surface was . Thanks in advance.

That isn't the point..If they spent the money on starting from square one and re built a world class dirt track that featured proper drainage, a well constructed cushion, and was maintained correctly would it be at least as safe as Pro Ride. California cant further alienate itself from racing by having horses that are dirt runners failing on Pro Ride.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I don't think anyone is espousing a bad dirt course being put back in at SA. The hope is that a dirt course can be installed that will be safe and able to hold up to the elements. Realistically, this is a joke. There's been a grand total of 1.96 inches of rain recorded at SA from 1/17 thru 1/19. That is roughly the equivalent of what falls in an hour and a half of a strong thunderstorm in many parts of the country. Now there might not be racing until Saturday, if that? I understand there's more rain coming tonight but for crissakes, this is ridiculous.

On another note, when's Witty running?

NT

Cal Racing = NY Mets

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Cal Racing = NY Mets

That hurts.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

That hurts.

Whatever can go wrong does and there is huge fan based waiting to explode once it turns around.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Realistically, this is a joke. There's been a grand total of 1.96 inches of rain recorded at SA from 1/17 thru 1/19. That is roughly the equivalent of what falls in an hour and a half of a strong thunderstorm in many parts of the country.

NT

So you feel that California should engineer their drainage for storms from other parts of the Country?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

So you feel that California should engineer their drainage for storms from other parts of the Country?

My point, which was abundantly clear in my original post, is that the drainage problems that exist at SA are irreparable and a change in surface is the only alternative.

Dirt has been able to withstand the test of time and many, many racetracks in this country are still perfectly safe after much more rain than what has fallen at SA since Sunday.

NT

[Honu]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I don't think anyone is espousing a bad dirt course being put back in at SA. The hope is that a dirt course can be installed that will be safe and able to hold up to the elements. Realistically, this is a joke. There's been a grand total of 1.96 inches of rain recorded at SA from 1/17 thru 1/19. That is roughly the equivalent of what falls in an hour and a half of a strong thunderstorm in many parts of the country. Now there might not be racing until Saturday, if that? I understand there's more rain coming tonight but for crissakes, this is ridiculous.

On another note, when's Witty running?

NT

Dude the whole place is swamped , training track is floating , I live 5 mins from Santa Anita and the total until last night at my place was 2 and 1/4 inches. I agree it ridiculous that the jerks that installed the original drainage system and surface have so screwed the track up that there is no coming back. What do you want a miracle ? There is no miracle cure for a system that doesnt work and if we get the rain they are projecting for today I dont care if the whole track was scotch guarded , its screwed.
So where do you think they are going to find material for a good "safe" racing surface? I mean its not like the old days where you can go dredge a river for fine even sandy loam . So other than Zia Park in N.M. where was the last "good" dirt surfaced installed?
The material they have here in California is the same that was on that dirt track that led to so many horses dying that in a futile attempt to stop the carnage they rushed to judgement about synthetics.
Im not saying synthetics are the saving grace but at least there is some hope with them , we can learn how to make them better and how to improve them , with dirt I think all resources have been used and it will still always be dirt.
Witty needs a few more works then she is ready to ROLL!!!!!!!! She looks awesome dude , she gotz more junk in her trunk than J Lo.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Dirt has been able to withstand the test of time

NT

whats the first post at Turf Paradise today?

[tector]

Originally Posted by Honu

Dude the whole place is swamped , training track is floating , I live 5 mins from Santa Anita and the total until last night at my place was 2 and 1/4 inches. I agree it ridiculous that the jerks that installed the original drainage system and surface have so screwed the track up that there is no coming back. What do you want a miracle ? There is no miracle cure for a system that doesnt work and if we get the rain they are projecting for today I dont care if the whole track was scotch guarded , its screwed.
So where do you think they are going to find material for a good "safe" racing surface? I mean its not like the old days where you can go dredge a river for fine even sandy loam . So other than Zia Park in N.M. where was the last "good" dirt surfaced installed?

When GP was redone, which wasn't that long ago. It is 10x better than old dirt course, complaints about the new dimensions not withstanding.

And the turf course is 1000x better than the old turf course, by the way.

These are not lost arts.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

whats the first post at Turf Paradise today?

So you think dirt is not the only option SA has left? Or you're OK with racing being cancelled when it rains? I mean if I was stuck with 7 race cards on a s.hit surface I'd probably embrace the time off as well.

NT

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

So you think dirt is not the only option SA has left? Or you're OK with racing being cancelled when it rains? I mean if I was stuck with 7 race cards on a s.hit surface I'd probably embrace the time off as well.

NT

I don't think the surface means one thing in the grand scheme to racing in socal. The loss of cards to winter weather, especially in El Nino pattern years is nothing new, even when they had dirt (take a look back to 2005).

It sounds good though, no one wants to talk about the real problems because there are not quick and easy solutions to those (of which really are not racings fault).

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Honu

Witty needs a few more works then she is ready to ROLL!!!!!!!! She looks awesome dude , she gotz more junk in her trunk than J Lo.

Serious compliment in a horse ...

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I don't think the surface means one thing in the grand scheme to racing in socal. The loss of cards to winter weather, especially in El Nino pattern years is nothing new, even when they had dirt (take a look back to 2005).

It sounds good though, no one wants to talk about the real problems because there are not quick and easy solutions to those (of which really are not racings fault).

I remember there being a lot of rain in 2005 and the track was sloppy many days with numerous turf races lost but the thing was they didn't lose any full days. There's nothing glorious about racing in the mud but it happens and all things considered, it happens so little in SoCal.

NT

[Honu]

I for the most part just hope whatever they do with the track that.
1. It shuts everybody the hell up , no more infighting among the horseman.
2. That the surface is kind enough to the horses for how hard people like to train out here.
3.That they fire Steve Woods and never let him on the surface again.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Honu

I for the most part just hope whatever they do with the track that.
1. It shuts everybody the hell up , no more infighting among the horseman.
2. That the surface is kind enough to the horses for how hard people like to train out here.
3.That they fire Steve Woods and never let him on the surface again.

Why do they work horses so hard in So Cal.? You never see works of 59 for even the very best stock in the east.. Typical bullets at Belmont for 4f's is like 47.-48 depending on the surface conditions in Cal .45? Unless its Gary Stute then its 42.4.lol

[Honu]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Why do they work horses so hard in So Cal.? You never see works of 59 for even the very best stock in the east.. Typical bullets at Belmont for 4f's is like 47.-48 depending on the surface conditions in Cal .45? Unless its Gary Stute then its 42.4.lol

Because the surface is always fast and hard , if the horses worked slow like they do on deep sandy slow tracks back east then the horseman would have strokes. Del Mar was slow when they put it in and everybody flipped the heck out , so they water it and make it faster and also make it harder.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Riot

Isn't the rain in California like 20 inches this week in some areas, monsoons, mudslides, etc? Would they be racing if it were a dirt track?

Yes, they would roll it till it was as hard as a pool table and the water couldn't soak in.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

Hey I was wondering if anyone could help me find articles saying how wonderfull and great the dirt surface was . Thanks in advance.

replacing a bad surface with a bad surface is no fix at all. the chrb shouldn't have mandated this to begin with, and tracks shouldn't have bought into the 'maintenance-, injury-, fatality-free mantra that the poly tracks were selling them. if it sounds too good to be true, it is. a good dirt track would have fixed their problems. how much time and money has been spent at SA? how much have they lost due to this mess between re-doing, lost days, etc? sheer idiocy from the get-go.