INVASOR: Injury ends career

[gamblin4ever]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

What about Lava Man? And Flashy Bull and Papi Chullo have improved leaps and bounds in recent weeks.

Top 3 horses of the older division @ time of injury was Invasor,Invasor,and Invasor..lol No other horse could run with him,especially at the Classic dist.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by gamblin4ever

Top 3 horses of the older division @ time of injury was Invasor,Invasor,and Invasor..lol No other horse could run with him,especially at the Classic dist.

No doubt that Invasor was the tops of the division, but I'm not suddenly feeling this gaping hole that's been left in the American dirt racing scene.

If there was a hole, its been there since February. Invasor was slated to make at most 3 more starts. A race like the Dubai World Cup, for all the excitement it generates for a single day, really is a detriment to the season as a whole, as the trip involved usually puts the participants out of commission for a significant period of time whether by design or out of necessity. The race, when you get down to it, is practically a tailored novelty (kind of like Cigar's Citation Challenge in '96) that seeks to be a seasonal championship event just when the racing year is getting warmed up. For the most part, its influence has a negative impact on American racing, either by leading to early retirement or compromising the domestic campaigns in the States of top level horses.

Invasor was going to run in 4 horse fields a couple of more times before attempting a second BC Classic, which would have been his only significant start aside from the Dubai race. But racing is a year long event and really Invasor was not going to play much of a part during the year other than at the bookends. The weight of his absence was already very much in tow even before the injury.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

No doubt that Invasor was the tops of the division, but I'm not suddenly feeling this gaping hole that's been left in the American dirt racing scene.

If there was a hole, its been there since February. Invasor was slated to make at most 3 more starts. A race like the Dubai World Cup, for all the excitement it generates for a single day, really is a detriment to the season as a whole, as the trip involved usually puts the participants out of commission for a significant period of time whether by design or out of necessity. The race, when you get down to it, is practically a tailored novelty (kind of like Cigar's Citation Challenge in '96) that seeks to be a seasonal championship event just when the racing year is getting warmed up. For the most part, its influence has a negative impact on American racing, either by leading to early retirement or compromising the domestic campaigns in the States of top level horses.

Invasor was going to run in 4 horse fields a couple of more times before attempting a second BC Classic, which would have been his only significant start aside from the Dubai race. But racing is a year long event and really Invasor was not going to play much of a part during the year other than at the bookends. The weight of his absence was already very much in tow even before the injury.

Very good point.

[Cannon Shell]

I think that the horses hurt the most are Street Sense and Curlin. I say that because if they were to defeat Invasor or even lose to him in a close race it would give them some historical legitimacy. He was the measuring stick that they could be judged on. Now that he is gone the older horse division is such a wreck that there will always be questions over just how good they were considering they both are very unlikely to run at 4.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think that the horses hurt the most are Street Sense and Curlin. I say that because if they were to defeat Invasor or even lose to him in a close race it would give them some historical legitimacy. He was the measuring stick that they could be judged on. Now that he is gone the older horse division is such a wreck that there will always be questions over just how good they were considering they both are very unlikely to run at 4.

You don't think Curlin will?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think that the horses hurt the most are Street Sense and Curlin. I say that because if they were to defeat Invasor or even lose to him in a close race it would give them some historical legitimacy. He was the measuring stick that they could be judged on. Now that he is gone the older horse division is such a wreck that there will always be questions over just how good they were considering they both are very unlikely to run at 4.

It also significantly increases the chance they actually run in the BC Classic.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

You don't think Curlin will?

will what?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It also significantly increases the chance they actually run in the BC Classic.

Why?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

will what?

run at 4.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

run at 4.

I dont believe he will though I have no information, just a hunch. Especially being that he is owned by two of the biggest commercial breeders in the business, one who stands stallions.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why?

Cause lately the top 3yos seem to like to keep the "we could have won the BC Classic if he didn't get some fluke injury" myth going. Unless they think Street Sense has a legit shot in the Classic they will find an excuse to not run him and keep him as the first horse to win the BC Juvenile and Kentucky Derby that "would have won the Classic if he didn't get hurt". I don't think any of the top 3yos were looking forward to clashing with Invasor. Now I am sure they are licking their chops at taking on the remnants of the Classic division.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Cause lately the top 3yos seem to like to keep the "we could have won the BC Classic if he didn't get some fluke injury" myth going. Unless they think Street Sense has a legit shot in the Classic they will find an excuse to not run him and keep him as the first horse to win the BC Juvenile and Kentucky Derby that "would have won the Classic if he didn't get hurt". I don't think any of the top 3yos were looking forward to clashing with Invasor. Now I am sure they are licking their chops at taking on the remnants of the Classic division.

What three year olds skipped the Classic?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What three year olds skipped the Classic?

Which top ones have actually run? Yeah, there were a lot of legit reasons among them (although I will still never believe Bluegrass Cat's injury) but who knows how many of those "legit" reasons wouldn't have quickly become non-issues if the top runners in the Classic division were running 105-107 Beyers? I mean heck, we haven't even had a Derby winner run in the Traver's since 1995.

The current trend in the breeding industry which baffles me is that a loss will destroy the value of a stallion prospect. Everyone wants to sell their stallions on a combo of what they've done and what they could have done. No one wants to take the chance of actually finding out what they could have done. This is why I think the top 3yos went from doubtful/questionable to come back to probable. None of them wanted to really find out if they could have beat Invasor. All of them are willing to find out if they could beat Flashy Bull.

[Cajungator26]

Ugh... Bluegrass Rat.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Which top ones have actually run? Yeah, there were a lot of legit reasons among them (although I will still never believe Bluegrass Cat's injury) but who knows how many of those "legit" reasons wouldn't have quickly become non-issues if the top runners in the Classic division were running 105-107 Beyers? I mean heck, we haven't even had a Derby winner run in the Traver's since 1995.

The current trend in the breeding industry which baffles me is that a loss will destroy the value of a stallion prospect. Everyone wants to sell their stallions on a combo of what they've done and what they could have done. No one wants to take the chance of actually finding out what they could have done. This is why I think the top 3yos went from doubtful/questionable to come back to probable. None of them wanted to really find out if they could have beat Invasor. All of them are willing to find out if they could beat Flashy Bull.

Bluegrass Cat was not going to be sold. His stud fee would be the same regardless of where he finished in the Classic unless he won or ran a good second. Afleet Alex had a legit injury, Smarty Jones had a legit injury, who else skipped the Classic?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Bluegrass Cat was not going to be sold. His stud fee would be the same regardless of where he finished in the Classic unless he won or ran a good second. Afleet Alex had a legit injury, Smarty Jones had a legit injury, who else skipped the Classic?

Jazil? LMAO

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Jazil? LMAO

His win destroyed his stud value

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

No doubt that Invasor was the tops of the division, but I'm not suddenly feeling this gaping hole that's been left in the American dirt racing scene.

If there was a hole, its been there since February. Invasor was slated to make at most 3 more starts. A race like the Dubai World Cup, for all the excitement it generates for a single day, really is a detriment to the season as a whole, as the trip involved usually puts the participants out of commission for a significant period of time whether by design or out of necessity. The race, when you get down to it, is practically a tailored novelty (kind of like Cigar's Citation Challenge in '96) that seeks to be a seasonal championship event just when the racing year is getting warmed up. For the most part, its influence has a negative impact on American racing, either by leading to early retirement or compromising the domestic campaigns in the States of top level horses.

Invasor was going to run in 4 horse fields a couple of more times before attempting a second BC Classic, which would have been his only significant start aside from the Dubai race. But racing is a year long event and really Invasor was not going to play much of a part during the year other than at the bookends. The weight of his absence was already very much in tow even before the injury.

couldn't disagree more.
Invasors departure leaves a huge hole this year in my mind. he wasn't only at the top of the division, he was a horse with rare qualities.
the campaign for this years breeders cup classic seems much less exciting to me now. the possibility of Invasor running the table two years in a row and repeating in the BCC classic was huge for me and I suspect many others. I was also really looking forward to seeing how this years crop of top three year olds would fare against the big guy this fall.

True, Invasor may have only missed three races due to injury, but for me they were very important and exciting races. By the way, I wouldn't call the races he had on his agenda exactly insignificant. I wanted to see him step up a bit more in the historical sense and a repeat in the BCC would have put him in rare company.
BTW, the Dubai World Cup is not some novelty day of excitement. from a quality standpoint this past DWC was on par with any breeders cup offering. the racing year doesn't warm up at the same time world-wide, there are more than one racing seasons.

[miraja2]

As I write this there have been 79 replies to the thread about Invasor being retired, and 124 replies to the thread about Scat Daddy being retired.
Does that seem a bit backwards to anybody else?

[Bogey]

Invasor won six Grades 1's in a row. No doubt he was the best champion since Ghostzapper. He deserves 1000 posts.