JAZIL....Most Overrated horse in the history of horse racing....

[slotdirt]

What was wrong with last year's field? You had the second and third place Derby horses in Bluegrass Cat and Steppenwolfer, other graded stakes winners in Bob and John, Deputy Glitters, and Sunriver, and stakes performers in Hemingway's Key, Sacred Light, and Platinum Couple. That's a legit 3YO GI field IMO.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by JJP

Guess who was eligible for a NW1X when they ran the Belmont last year? That's right, Jazil. I do agree the 2000 running was hideously bad but last years running was nothing to write home about.

JJP,

Multiple horses were eligible for N1X in the 2000 Belmont, including the favorite Aptitude. Toss in Wheelaway, Commendable, I think, and a few others. Unshaded wasn't because of the Lexington, Hugh Hefner wasn't because of a Cal-bred win, and I can't remember who else was in the field. I know I was six deep in the Pick 6 but I wouldn't have ever used Commendable.

NT

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Gander

You could make the case for the 2005 Belmont being weak as a field, but I think Afleet Alex was clearly a great horse and very unlucky not to have been a Triple Crown winner, as he was 5 lengths the best in the KY Derby.

Jazil is a good horse who was in the right place at the right time. If you run the 2006 Belmont 5 times, there is a good chance you get 4-5 different winners.

If you run the 2005 Belmont Stakes 5 times, well I think its hard pressed to say that any of those would have been near Afleet Alex. He was a machine.

I don't agree with the second paragraph, but definitely agree with the latter. Afleet Alex looked flat to me coming down the stretch in the Derby so I don't really agree with him being 5 lengths better on that day, but any other day, yes.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Gander

You could make the case for the 2005 Belmont being weak as a field, but I think Afleet Alex was clearly a great horse and very unlucky not to have been a Triple Crown winner, as he was 5 lengths the best in the KY Derby.

Jazil is a good horse who was in the right place at the right time. If you run the 2006 Belmont 5 times, there is a good chance you get 4-5 different winners.

If you run the 2005 Belmont Stakes 5 times, well I think its hard pressed to say that any of those would have been near Afleet Alex. He was a machine.

I disagree, I think they run it 5 times and Jazil runs right around the exact same time every race. He just runs the same speed all the time. I don't think that in 4 out of 5 races someone else from that field would run significantly better to beat him. At 12 furlongs he might even crack the top five horses in the country last year behind Invasor, Barbaro, Bernardini, and Premium Tap who all likely would have gone 12 no problem. None of the other horses in that Belmont field are even close to cracking the top ten. Unfortunately for Jazil there are no more 12 furlong races to run in so he'll be deemed a slow failure for not being able to win major stakes at 9 furlongs.

[slotdirt]

That rail was as dead as dead could be that. Alex was obviously spent, lugged in to the worst part of the track, and spun his wheels. The most impressive horse in that race, IMO, was Closing Argument.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

That rail was as dead as dead could be that. Alex was obviously spent, lugged in to the worst part of the track, and spun his wheels. The most impressive horse in that race, IMO, was Closing Argument.

I agree on that. An amazing race by him that day.

[slotdirt]

Caveat to my previous statement: Afleet Alex ran a damn good race in Derby 131 as well. He took all sorts of bumping in the first half mile or so, and still was there at the finish. Closing Argument and Afleet Alex basically had the same trip in that race.

Way off topic.

[avance2000]

this is a great thread. i have never been a big fan of jazil, but when somebody comes on here that clearly does not understand the meaning of the word "overrated" i like the fact that a bunch of different people shout him down.
the most overrated horse ever? you have to be kidding me. he was not even the most overrated horse to win a TC race last year.....let alone ever. it was a foolish comment. thanks for setting him straight guys.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Oh come on, you know you just thought he looked cute splashing through the puddles on Wood Memorial day.

I almost got attacked by Baffert that day after I told him Bob and John would need a golf cart to win the Derby!!! :P

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by philcski

I almost got attacked by Baffert that day after I told him Bob and John would need a golf cart to win the Derby!!! :P

The golf cart would beat him in a match race. Just kidding!

[philcski]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

JJP,

Multiple horses were eligible for N1X in the 2000 Belmont, including the favorite Aptitude. Toss in Wheelaway, Commendable, I think, and a few others. Unshaded wasn't because of the Lexington, Hugh Hefner wasn't because of a Cal-bred win, and I can't remember who else was in the field. I know I was six deep in the Pick 6 but I wouldn't have ever used Commendable.

NT

You're correct in this except that Cal-bred wins don't count against OPEN N1X conditions... so technically, Hugh Hefner was also eligible for N1X.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

The golf cart would beat him in a match race. Just kidding!

I liked the Superstar a lot better than Bob and John after that race... especially when I had the unfortunate luck of sitting next to Bob and John themselves... all i could think the whole time was "what does baffert put in his hair that makes it so shiny??"

[NTamm1215]

That's correct Phil, hey what do you think of Panty Raid today? She should destroy them at about 2/5 in my opinion.

NT

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

That's correct Phil, hey what do you think of Panty Raid today? She should destroy them at about 2/5 in my opinion.

NT

Watch out for Early Vintage.

In Eclipse balloting, the Belmont winner Jazil was not even rated in the top three. I do not see him as overhyped or overrated at all. He reminds me of another TC race winner named Strike the Gold. After his Derby victory, he went thirteen months until he found the winner's circle again in the Pimlico Special, the same day that his future nemesis A.P. Indy won the Belmont. In the 1992 BC Classic, Strike the Gold could not handle the younger, better horse. I would think Jazil will repeat that. Better younger horses will defeat him in the fall. Before that his own age group will defeat him.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by philcski

I liked the Superstar a lot better than Bob and John after that race... especially when I had the unfortunate luck of sitting next to Bob and John themselves... all i could think the whole time was "what does baffert put in his hair that makes it so shiny??"

I wonder if he steals Jill's products? (this smilie actually resembles him)

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I wonder if he steals Jill's products? (this smilie actually resembles him)

The "Bob" in Bob and John is not Bob Baffert. It is rather Bob McNair, the owner of Stonerside Stable. The "John" of Bob and John is John Adger, racing manager for Stonerside's racing and breeding operation. I'm sure Baffert would like to think the Bob was meant to be for him, but it was not.

NT

[philcski]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

That's correct Phil, hey what do you think of Panty Raid today? She should destroy them at about 2/5 in my opinion.

NT

i'll guess she goes off at 9/5 or so. this is a pretty decent N1X, i'd be afraid of Silver Knockers. Sniper likes Early Vintage...

I wouldn't be surprised if she runs well today but gets beat. First start off a 7 month layoff, and there's bigger prizes down the road for a filly that could potentially be the best of her birthyear (and i mean that legitimately.)

[Mac88]

Originally Posted by Bold Reasoning

In Eclipse balloting, the Belmont winner Jazil was not even rated in the top three. I do not see him as overhyped or overrated at all. He reminds me of another TC race winner named Strike the Gold. After his Derby victory, he went thirteen months until he found the winner's circle again in the Pimlico Special, the same day that his future nemesis A.P. Indy won the Belmont. In the 1992 BC Classic, Strike the Gold could not handle the younger, better horse. I would think Jazil will repeat that. Better younger horses will defeat him in the fall. Before that his own age group will defeat him.

Thats my opinion. Not necessarily over rated but do not believe future will have him winning many G1's. Think he is a tough little horse but do not like him from wagering standpoint or believe he will be a major factor rest of handicap division season. Did make an OK run to be second to Take the Bluff who did repeat yesterday albeit in a three horse field so not sure how much I would put into that. Still agree that he wont win much untill fall and there is a good chance a few 3 year olds will devlop to be better than him come fall championship season

[philcski]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The "Bob" in Bob and John is not Bob Baffert. It is rather Bob McNair, the owner of Stonerside Stable. The "John" of Bob and John is John Adger, racing manager for Stonerside's racing and breeding operation. I'm sure Baffert would like to think the Bob was meant to be for him, but it was not.

NT

Correct... Bob McNair was at Aqueduct with Baffert on Wood day. I didn't know what the other guy looked like but i'd guess that he was in that group.