McKee Blew it!

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Gander

Or could it just be Strong Contender is just a better horse?

He's definetely not a better horse, he only won by a little less than a length, not exactly a pounding, LR took the worst of it, but that's on him, it wasn't SC's fault that he won, they're both about the same talent level, not much seperates them...

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Gander

Or could it just be Strong Contender is just a better horse?

It is possible, but you can't prove it from the results of the Super Derby.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Gander

Or could it just be Strong Contender is just a better horse?

Strong Contender was fit and ready for the race, but to say he is a better race horse? Only on yesterday. In the future? We will see.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

He's definetely not a better horse, he only won by a little less than a length, not exactly a pounding, LR took the worst of it, but that's on him, it wasn't SC's fault that he won, they're both about the same talent level, not much seperates them...

I will mention one thing that seperates them, it is that some people refuse to acknowledge no matter how many times he proves it, that LR is a very good and possibly G1 type horse...If you are a LR fan, yesterday was nothing but a confirmation that he's a very good horse, that needs to learn to rate...

[cal828]

Strange that they seem to have been able to rate him in some races usually against lesser competition, but not others. Why is that? In the Saint Louis race maybe it was just rust being his first off layoff, but he was also rateable
in the Southwest. Anybody know what his beyer was? I think he had to run a bigger one that the Arkansas Derby. Yesterday's race was about 3 seconds faster, I think.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

this horse is 6-8 lenghts faster if they could get a jock to do some work with him in the mornings and get him to relax.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I have a feeling that if McKee lets him go yesterday, and opens up 10 down the backstretch, and still gets beat. All we'd here is why did McKee let him run off.

well, that is a possibility...but we only know what we know, and that's that he fought the horse, and the horse lost by about 3/4 of a length after a wrestling match with his rider.

[Zoe]

Trying not to be too critical, But Lawyer Ron will need to be carrying an oxygen tank instead of a rider to make it a step past 1 1/8 miles. He will be solid at 1 - 1 1/16, and may beat lesser at 1 1/8, but 1 1/4 is beyond this horse's ability.
If he runs in the Classic, he's not much more than a pace factor for the big boys.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Zoe

Trying not to be too critical, But Lawyer Ron will need to be carrying an oxygen tank instead of a rider to make it a step past 1 1/8 miles. He will be solid at 1 - 1 1/16, and may beat lesser at 1 1/8, but 1 1/4 is beyond this horse's ability.
If he runs in the Classic, he's not much more than a pace factor for the big boys.

Let's see he's had 2 races @ 1 1/8th, he's won one and run 2nd in the other(while setting fast fractions), the Derby is a throwout, because he came up hurt and was over the top with all of the racing. Please justify your statement, because you have no proof that he can't go that far....

[sumitas]

SC almost broke the track record yesterday, only coming up 2 ticks off. Both SC and LR shoould get huge numbers for the race.

[Gander]

You cant say that there is no way Strong Contender is the better horse or vice versa. I personally think so but cnt argue with those who feel Lawyer Ron is the better horse. But please dont act like Lawyer Ron is some super horse like Bernardini and whos recent wins blow Strong Contender's resume out of the water. Its just not true. I agree these horses are very close in ability but I think Strong Contender is more talented. Only time will tell, and maybe time wont even tell with the way horses are retired just when your getting into rivalries.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Gander

You cant say that there is no way Strong Contender is the better horse or vice versa. I personally think so but cnt argue with those who feel Lawyer Ron is the better horse. But please dont act like Lawyer Ron is some super horse like Bernardini and whos recent wins blow Strong Contender's resume out of the water. Its just not true. I agree these horses are very close in ability but I think Strong Contender is more talented. Only time will tell, and maybe time wont even tell with the way horses are retired just when your getting into rivalries.

I think you're right only that I think that SC and LR are about at the same level at 1 1/8. Past 1 1/8, it's SC all the way. I really think LR has distance limitations. Yesterday proved that neither one of these horses are "slow". SC made a very, very nice move coming around the final turn. I think that this horse is improving, and will be an extremely nice horse as a four year old. I really see SC being a late bloomer because of his size. I mean, you saw the difference in SC's size and LR's size yesterday. SC is HUGE!!! I also think that the Beyers for this race will be decent in the grand scheme of GI horses.

I would like to see Holthus skip the BCC with LR and point him to the Cigar Mile. I don't think that he will be a factor in the Classic because I really don't think this horse is going to want 1 1/4 especially with him being as rank as he is, but I do think that he would do very well in the CM.

[Danzig]

one race at 10f imo isn't enough to say lawyer ron can't get the distance. i remember that folks thought congaree couldn't get it either. altho he didn't win them all, he was always there at the end.

hard to say yet which of the two is better, SC or LR. of course head to head right now, you'd have to think strong contender is the better, since he's the one with the win.

not so sure that ron will be back. i know there's a stud deal in place for him. i wouldn't be surprised if he ran til the end of the year, whether bcc or elsewhere, and then retired.

strong contender--i'm hoping he'll be back next year. i don't feel he's done enough yet to really garner a lot of attention as far as breeding, and that he's still improving. still a lot of upside to this guy, i think he could be a top older horse.

[2Hot4TV]

If you watched the race you could see that Lawyer Ron was (IMO) intimidated by the horses around him in post parade. That was Strong Contender and he was cool , calm and relaxed. The only reason I didn't bet him was because he refused to be loaded in the gate. In hind sight he didn't get mad or angry he was just stubborn and kept turning sideways to the gate. I think Strong Contender is going to improve off this race.

[dalakhani]

Just a quick question for all of the Lawyer Ron apologists. What has he ever beaten? The Arkansas route was quite soft this year and its not like the St louis derby is a real race.

Has he beaten anything of quality?

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Just a quick question for all of the Lawyer Ron apologists. What has he ever beaten? The Arkansas route was quite soft this year and its not like the St louis derby is a real race.

Has he beaten anything of quality?

Has Bernardini?

Besides, a bunch of tired horses in the Preakness and an injured Barbaro...He got away with slow fractions in the Jim Dandy and beat a 3 legged Blue Grass Cat in the Travers...

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Has Bernardini?

Besides, a bunch of tired horses in the Preakness and an injured Barbaro...He got away with slow fractions in the Jim Dandy and beat a 3 legged Blue Grass Cat in the Travers...

Well, Bernardini won the Preakness and in doing so beat graded stakes winners in Sweetnorthernsaint and brother derek. If you include barbaro, he beat the three top favorites in the derby and did so convincingly.

In the travers he beat BGC who was a graded stake winner and a runner up in two classics.

I would say he has beaten the best in his class save a healthy barbaro.

I repeat, what has Lawyer Ron beaten?

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Come on do you really want to compare Bernardini and Lawyer Ron.

Did I say anything that wasn't true?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Did I say anything that wasn't true?

That tired horse thing is a bunch of ****. If sweetnorthensaint was so "tired" as you say, how come he ran such a nice fig in the preakness?

How about BGC? Correct me if im wrong but the fig in the travers was close to his best.

Has Lawyer Ron beaten anything at all...even "tired" horses?

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Well, Bernardini won the Preakness and in doing so beat graded stakes winners in Sweetnorthernsaint and brother derek. If you include barbaro, he beat the three top favorites in the derby and did so convincingly.

In the travers he beat BGC who was a graded stake winner and a runner up in two classics.

I would say he has beaten the best in his class save a healthy barbaro.

I repeat, what has Lawyer Ron beaten?

Do you really think SNS and BD were at their best in the Preakness?

BGC was running on 3 legs in the Travers...

Bernardini is a talented horse, but I do not believe he's a super horse by any means...GZ, Smarty, and Mineshaft to name a few are better...