As expected Crist is the man about the girl

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by tector

Well Haskin wrote a column today doing the same thing.

But let me see if understand:

If someone discusses now how she could easily lose, they have to listen to a dork like you mumbling your gibberish above?

But if they don't bring it up now, and she loses, proven liar/distortionist dalkhani is going to whine because they didn't raise it advance?

Do you guys routinely give each other reacharounds? Or do you limit yourselves to circle jerks like this?

Maybe you guys will get "lucky" and she'll break down--then you can feel REALLY superior to Jess Jackson. Yeah, you'll have shown him but good.

IC, there were more entertaining loons on AOL, but the concentration of true bitter losers is no less here.

So she has gone from the greatest filly ever to now she can easily lose to a 2nd rater but we are the idiots? Oh boy racing writers are cautioning us that she can lose!!!

This is the greatest logic ever. So now if she wins, you will crow about how smart you are because you knew she was truly great and Jackson is a great ambassador for the sport. However if she loses you will say that you knew about this possibility beforehand because some writers said so.

Unlike most, some of us have seen some great horses compete before. Not Smarty Jones or Curlin or Afleet Alex or whatever passes for great nowdays. And guess what? With one notable exception they all lost and no one thought less of them. Perhaps you should q2uit your insults and learn a little before running your mouth and using racing writers as your reference points.

You, my friend, may have a short shelf life around here.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

She could lose on Saturday and I'd run her there anyway.

I don't understand the "it's the BC you must run" logic - and it's not like she is the only horse being withheld from the event.

Why would you possibly NOT want to see her run and perhaps put all this zenyatta crap to rest once and for all? Just asking?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

No.

This isn't consistent with the legacy argument that Jackson has put fwd. Plus as I have been reminded here multiple times she did win at Keeneland on polytrack, pending what she does after the Woodward, why wouldn't you want to see her race against the best at SA? How can any fan of racing not want this to happen?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by CSC

This isn't consistent with the legacy argument that Jackson has put fwd. Plus as I have been reminded here multiple times she did win at Keeneland on polytrack, pending what she does after the Woodward, why wouldn't you want to see her race against the best at SA? How can any fan of racing not want this to happen?

Because people love dirt more than horse racing

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I could/may/hope to own a special horse like RA some day. All I know is if I ever owned her, she would be on the first flight to LA to run in run in the BC.
Win, lose or draw I would never put my personal agenda about surfaces against a great match up.

Bob I hope you get one and I hope Chuck does as well. Let's dream.. You have your 3 year old filly machine you just won the logical Preakness, Haskell, Woodward. But the other champion is a turf mare are you going to the Turf Classic? Would you race a dirt horse on turf? Isn't Pro Ride NOT dirt the same way that Turf isnt dirt?
It is not about loving dirt. I have zero issue with POLY actually I think it is fine for some tracks. I just demand that it be considered a separate surface. Why the BC peopel were foolish enough not to comprehend this is frustrating and the sole cause for confusion. I actually would rather watch RA on try turf. I wonder if she could be as special.

If Jackson wanted to get her ready for BC he would need to ship her to CA. after the Wodward then look for a spot to see if she handled the stuff. Tom and Chuck contention is she already handled the stuff...Against what type. I am sure she could win a 10 claiming on the turf does that mean she handles turf? You have a once in a generation horse shouldn't she go in the Beldame against Zenyatta. Shouldn't we all be pissed that the Moss's are denying Zenyatta an opportunity to prove her greatness. Zenyatta has earned the right to face RA. The Beldame would be an awesome spot for her and racing. Instead you want Jess to skip the Beldame, and start prepping for a surface switch or just sending her there work her once or twice and send her out. Chuck says who cares if she loses they all lose, which is 100% true but it seems silly and it is all because the BC and racing seems to think dirt and poly are interchangable.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Scav

The BC is for the best horses to run against each other. Hell, the f'n Euro's try their turf horses on dirt/synthetic every single year, but this Jackson guy can't ship the best horse of 2009 out there.....

I still maintain that she will run in the BC, regardless of what he is saying. As you all have seen, the guy likes a 'story' and him repeating saying he isn't going to do it, then he says "For the good of the game and industry I am going to run RA in the BC Classic"

Scav Euro's go to Pro ride/Poly because their horses are equipped to handle it. Not because they are sporting the BC

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Bob I hope you get one and I hope Chuck does as well. Let's dream.. You have you 3 year old filly machine you just won the logical Preakness, Haskell, Woodward. But the other champion is a turf mare are you going to the Turf Classic? Would you race a filly dirt horse on turf? Isn't Pro Ride NOT dirt the same way that Turf isnt dirt?

I would love to try RA on the turf too..why not Fred? If you have nothing to prove and it doesn't have any potential risk physically..go crazy with her. Obviously the 3 yr old and older dirt division horses are limited, so why not look outside the box for new challenges? If she runs 5th in the Arlington Million next year it won't hurt her breeding value at all.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Bob I hope you get one and I hope Chuck does as well. Let's dream.. You have you 3 year old filly machine you just won the logical Preakness, Haskell, Woodward. But the other champion is a turf mare are you going to the Turf Classic? Would you race a filly dirt horse on turf? Isn't Pro Ride NOT dirt the same way that Turf isnt dirt?

Why wouldnt you? What do you have to lose?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Because people love dirt more than horse racing

Or people love speed, poly is more fair.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

Or people love speed, poly is more fair.

fair to who? it's fair based on what? there are horses who have drastic changes in ability from one surface to the other-but one is fair?

poly, in all it's brand names, is a different surface. it's not dirt, it's not turf, and ability on one of those two surfaces will not indicate ability on awt. there's no correlation, there's nothing you can draw from a performance on one of those surfaces to enable you to conclude how a horse will perform when moved to a different surface. it's not an equalizer.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Why wouldnt you? What do you have to lose?

Exactly, it was brought yesterday that she won on Poly as to equal Zenyatta's record on both surfaces, I was then somewhat confusingly blasted for making some Cigar reference. Point is if it does equal Zenyatta's versatility on both surfaces, suggesting she can handle Pro-ride, why the sudden reluctance now? Which statement is more contradictory, she won at Keenland now and she cannot win at SA? I'm confused.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I would love to try RA on the turf too..why not Fred? If you have nothing to prove and it doesn't have any potential risk physically..go crazy with her. Obviously the 3 yr old and older dirt division horses are limited, so why not look outside the box for new challenges? If she runs 5th in the Arlington Million next year it won't hurt her breeding value at all.

Jess might try turf he did with Curlin. Curlin wasn't a turf horse. Rachel may or may not be. I just think this whole mess is caused by the BC people not having a third surface classic.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

fair to who? it's fair based on what? there are horses who have drastic changes in ability from one surface to the other-but one is fair?

poly, in all it's brand names, is a different surface. it's not dirt, it's not turf, and ability on one of those two surfaces will not indicate ability on awt. there's no correlation, there's nothing you can draw from a performance on one of those surfaces to enable you to conclude how a horse will perform when moved to a different surface. it's not an equalizer.

Summer Bird(who has never raced on poly) and others are willing to take that risk? Why not the biggest star in the game? whose campaign is constantly being referred as a legacy in the making? Don't you want to know?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Why wouldnt you? What do you have to lose?

There is nothing to lose. Jess is pissed that the BC doesn't have dirt races this year. We have 3 surfaces and we used to have 2. The BC people decided that the 3rd surface was equal to dirt. It isn't. Jess thinks that sucks and so do I.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by freddymo

There is nothing to lose. Jess is pissed that the BC doesn't have dirt races this year. We have 3 surfaces and we used to have 2. The BC people decided that the 3rd surface was equal to dirt. It isn't. Jess thinks that sucks and so do I.

Totally seperate note, but we have had more issues with grass horses trying to run on poly than with horses going from dirt to poly.

[freddymo]

I happen to think Parading is a perfect example of a horse that likes POLY is OK on turf and is an allowance horse on dirt. So because he got thru his conditions on dirt but won a graded stake on poly does he handle dirt and could he be successful on dirt in the Classic? If the horse was fast on dirt he would be in the Woodward instead Shug ships to the Pac Classic if there was a(and there should be) a Poly Classic he would be a perfect horse for it.. BUT the same horse couldn't beat 62,500k claimers on dirt.

Would it make sense to run him in the dirt Classic just to say they all lose?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by freddymo

There is nothing to lose. Jess is pissed that the BC doesn't have dirt races this year. We have 3 surfaces and we used to have 2. The BC people decided that the 3rd surface was equal to dirt. It isn't. Jess thinks that sucks and so do I.

Okay, so it sucks. Regardless, its the championhip and its going to be the last championship at Santa Anita for a while. By the time they have another one out there, Jess might be...not so interested in horse racing. I understand that he is pissed but is his personal agenda more important than the sport especially considering the comments he has made?

If he has nothing to lose, why not run? Becaue SHE might lose?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Totally seperate note, but we have had more issues with grass horses trying to run on poly than with horses going from dirt to poly.

Call Linda Rice she will get you in contact with a good pharmacy.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay, so it sucks. Regardless, its the championhip and its going to be the last championship at Santa Anita for a while. By the time they have another one out there, Jess might be...not so interested in horse racing. I understand that he is pissed but is his personal agenda more important than the sport especially considering the comments he has made?

If he has nothing to lose, why not run? Becaue SHE might lose?

I would rather watch the BC Classic with Rachel in it then not have her there. I love all racing especially at a high level. Anybody who says the BC Classic is better without Rachel is very special.

In FANTASY LAND..IF I owned Rachel I would be very torn. I know I would have NEVER sent her to the Preakness. I actually think I would have been really happy to win the Acorn, Goose, Coaching Club and Alabama. I think after the Alabama it would be the Beldame and then the boys. In all candor I think I would have been a total *****. I give Jess a lot of credit.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by CSC

Summer Bird(who has never raced on poly) and others are willing to take that risk? Why not the biggest star in the game? whose campaign is constantly being referred as a legacy in the making? Don't you want to know?

And what is Summer Bird's risk? He is the winner of the Belmont and Travers. He is believe it or not a son of the successful stallion Birdstone. Rachel doesn't have any risk either. Risk isn't the point. It is simple Rachel may or may not be a horse that can run as well on Pro ride as she runs on dirt. Her owner wants to make a statement. I don't blame him, he is entitled to do what he wants. He believes that by standing on ceremony the BC people will recognize that we need to have the BC Classic on dirt.