W/E Beyers - REVISED Curlin 110

[jcs11204]

ok but this morning when i said it was low, ppl were all over me ?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Makes more sense to me from a capability standpoint - Hystericalady is better than her original fig (and probably this one too), Pyro's not 101 worthy, and 110 works for Curlin even though that seems a little high with the slow pace.

The blind hatred of Pyro on this site continues to amaze me.

What does capability have to do with these particular races? Hystericalady beat a bunch of muskrats and was hardly asked to run, and Curlin's race was affected by a slow pace. I don't agree with adjusting figures for races like that just so they "fit" previous form.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The blind hatred of Pyro on this site continues to amaze me.

What does capability have to do with these particular races? Hystericalady beat a bunch of muskrats and was hardly asked to run, and Curlin's race was affected by a slow pace. I don't agree with adjusting figures for races like that just so they "fit" previous form.

You got to consider the source, ACE. The people criticizing horses like PYRO are also over hyping horses like Harlem Rocker and Unbridled's whatever. It's a number's frenzy. Enjoy it. It's what makes the game beatable.

[MISTERGEE]

after Curlins 110, 2nd best beyer of weekend is Rockerfeller. trained by marty wolfson in only his last two, runs a 106 beating some very speedy horses with ease. was basically running in the 70s beyer wise and couldnt win a nw2. reminds me of the turnaround of another live oak runner given to wolfson, Miesques Approval went from crap to breeders cup winner and turf champion

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The blind hatred of Pyro on this site continues to amaze me.

What does capability have to do with these particular races? Hystericalady beat a bunch of muskrats and was hardly asked to run, and Curlin's race was affected by a slow pace. I don't agree with adjusting figures for races like that just so they "fit" previous form.

maybe it's the darley connection?

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The blind hatred of Pyro on this site continues to amaze me.

What does capability have to do with these particular races? Hystericalady beat a bunch of muskrats and was hardly asked to run, and Curlin's race was affected by a slow pace. I don't agree with adjusting figures for races like that just so they "fit" previous form.

He's an ok horse - but I just don't think he's that fast. I don't hate him at all - he was one of the two horses I keyed on top in the derby. But, I think the figs he earned earlier this year are about right (as opposed to the BC fig). And, more importantly, I don't think My Pal Charlie is capable of the type of fig that he would get if Pyro got a 101.

I'm not an expert figure maker like you are apparently, so it's just easier for me to look at a fig in relation to a horse's previous figs and make judgments based on that as well as pace, trip, etc... I don't have the time or energy to analyze final times, variants, etc... I'm left at the mercy of the fig makers, which isn't ideal, but I trust their judgment most of the time.

I didn't have a problem with Curlin's original fig because of the pace scenario and the fact that it was his first race back from Dubai, but obviously if they split the variant it works out to a 110. Hystericalady's fig also makes sense, so I don't have a problem with it. Like you said, she wasn't asked (we won't get in to this discussion).

Fat man - you're just corny sometimes. I respect your opinion on trips, but the rest of the time you're a bit of a douche bag.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

You must not have been following Del Mar that closely the last few years.

Pure As Gold won the Grade 1 Bing Crosby at 23/1 first off the claim in 2006.

I am boycotting that race

[letswastemoney]

Heatseeker could be horse of the year next year if they kept him in training

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Not that I necessarily disagree with you, and maybe with the use of synthetics out west it ultimately means little, but I have to say that the CA division is pretty solid this year. Neither Heatseeker, Tiago, or Surf Cat have missed a beat all season long and up until he got hurt, Monterey Jazz was a prominent force himself. Old-timers that try hard like Lava Man and Big Booster (and perhaps Perfect Drift) add a little more depth and there are a couple of horses that may improve like Champs Elysees, Monzante, and Neko Bay.

At the same time, praise should be given to Dan Hendricks for his handling of the good turf horse Daytona, who has butted heads without a break since last October, and even after a big Grade 1 victory last out, is still pointing for a Grade 2 target in the next couple of weeks rather than staying in the stall awaiting something like the Eddie Read or Arlington Million.

IMO Heatseeker and tiago are second raters. Surf cat may have been talented but Headleys horses never seem to run much anyway. Lava man is over the hill as is PD and Big Booster is the second coming of Shifty Sheik. They are not really top horses.

Daytona is a good horse though he is all turf.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

IMO Heatseeker and tiago are second raters. Surf cat may have been talented but Headleys horses never seem to run much anyway. Lava man is over the hill as is PD and Big Booster is the second coming of Shifty Sheik. They are not really top horses.

Daytona is a good horse though he is all turf.

Here's a good trivia for you Chuck....name the four distances Shifty Sheik ran following the claim by Oscar. He won the first three races.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Heatseeker could be horse of the year next year if they kept him in training

And kept him on synthetics

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Here's a good trivia for you Chuck....name the four distances Shifty Sheik ran following the claim by Oscar. He won the first three races.

I know the first one was 1 1/8th at Saratoga, just missed the tr.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I know the first one was 1 1/8th at Saratoga, just missed the tr.

There was also only a quinella on the race which was annoying. What did he run....1:47 2/5?

He won his following start at one mile at Belmont, then he beat Ma Maison at 6F at Belmont, and then he finished second to Slew o Gold in the Woodward.

[Cannon Shell]

Can you imagine the rancor on board like this when Oscar was performing miracles?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Can you imagine the rancor on board like this when Oscar was performing miracles?

Rancor? Oscar was like an ATM. You could bet $11 doubles with impugnity. Plus, he had moves, like turnbacks on short rest with blinker changes that were gold.

Of course, there will never be anything like Bob Debonis blinkers off. And I mean NEVER.

[Cannon Shell]

The golden age...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The golden age...

No doubt. That's when the cheaters were GOOD.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't agree with adjusting figures for races like that just so they "fit" previous form.

I don't like it either. Why can't they just leave these ones as they were? Are we really to believe that the stretch of track from where they start the 9 furlong races to where they start the 8.5 furlong races is so slow that it needs to be split out?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Exactly. Now, as soon as Baffert realizes what a mistake he made skipping the Belmont with her, we'll be all set.

It must be keeping him up at night. After all, we know she's better than Da Tara, and she can outrun him.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

To be serious for a second, what did you think of Pyro's effort? I wasn't blown away, but with a minor step forward isn't he still right there among 3 year olds this year?

He's OK. All things considered, he could be a factor in 3YO races later this year. We'll see.