Arlignton Poly

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

Rain on the poly does make the track fast, and it's up to the track how fast they want it, not the weather conditions. If Arlington has had a lot of rain (which it looks like it has) the track will tighten up and could become lightning fast IF not much is done with it. Over here, if we have had a lot of rain on the poly, what we call a Clerk Of The Course will walk the track and identify if he/she thinks the surface is TOO fast for the horses. If so, they will arrange to have it harrowed slightly deeper than normal, allowing the rain water to soak through to the harcore/drainage underneath more quickly.

If poly is managed peoperly, it can be the best surface in the world, but just like any man made substance, put it in the wrong hands and things can change very quickly. I can't be sure, but after hearing about Turfway, i'd guess these tracks just aren't doing enough to make sure they are safe. Yes, it means hard work quite often, but if these tracks are prepared to take brake downs over hard work they don't deserve to be running a horse racing event.

the term "all-weather" is becoming a bit far fetched now. We have found that snow is probably the worst weather condition for poly. Heavy snow will lay on poly easily and create a freezing layer on top. Depending on how heavy the small fall is there can be very little you can do about it. This happened at Wolverhampton back in the winter, but even harrowing after every race wasn't doing the trick. Horses were coming back with frozen poly stuck in their hooves, and jockeys had complained of getting hit with what felt like rocks, when it was just the frozen poly getting kicked back.

Freezing temperatures are not ideal for poly, but there is no reason to believe that heat will cause any problems. Intense heat may mean the tracks might want to put some water on beforehand, but nothing else.

I'd be interested to know whether any of you guys know which 'blend' of polytrack each of these tracks have got. As far as i know there about 5 or 6 different blends available now, all slightly different in consistancy.

The best i have seen is at Lingfield, which rarely has any problems whatsoever, their blend is a much darker colour to look at.

you have to understand, over here we generally want a quick fix to all solutions. to have to WORK at a problem constantly is not in the best interest.

seriously, i think people leaped at poly, but are mismanaging it the same way they mismanaged their dirt surfaces. look at the tracks that still have dirt that are not seeing the numbers that del mar and arlington had last year. why? because they are focused on taking care of what they have, and doing it properly. installing poly won't help, if the mind set hasn't changed, and if no proper care is given the surface.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you have to understand, over here we generally want a quick fix to all solutions. to have to WORK at a problem constantly is not in the best interest.

seriously, i think people leaped at poly, but are mismanaging it the same way they mismanaged their dirt surfaces. look at the tracks that still have dirt that are not seeing the numbers that del mar and arlington had last year. why? because they are focused on taking care of what they have, and doing it properly. installing poly won't help, if the mind set hasn't changed, and if no proper care is given the surface.

You have hit the nail on the head. Most of these tracks saw polytrack as an easy fix and next to no maintenance. Truth is, polytrack is neither of those things, but when managed correctly, it is the safest surface for horses to gallop on and out of all of the synthetic surfaces that i have seen i would go as far as saying it is the safest synthetic surface around.

I hope that they start to realise what work has to be carried out so they can start to manage to surface properly, and then all the doubters would crawl back into their holes. Racing is a sport that doesn't react well to change of any kind, and it will take sometime for some people to like the poly, but it will happen. We have been racing on poly for around 5-7 years now, i think. I remember the first day Lingfield opened it's gates to the new surface and invited trainers from all parts to take part in 'trial' races. No one was quite sure how they would react to it, but the comments were amazing. "rides like a thick layer of snow" i think was one of the quotes from the jockeys, and the trainers were also as happy.

It shouldn't have been an issue because these horses have been trained on poly for many years now and there are some trainers that swear by it. John Dunlop (who is one of the old school) never gallops his horses on turf, he uses the artificial surfaces instead, mostly poly and woodchip.

There will be a few that will knock the poly all day long, but all i suggest to them is to come to England or at least get in contact with some of our trainers, or even the tracks themselves and get a proper opinion.

[jwkniska]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

I'd be interested to know whether any of you guys know which 'blend' of polytrack each of these tracks have got. As far as i know there about 5 or 6 different blends available now, all slightly different in consistancy.

I'm not sure exactly which blend they are, but.... Arlington, Keeneland and Del Mar have the exact same mix. Turfway and Woodbine have a different mix, which is because they run in the winter (they started with the AP, KEE, DM mix, then changed it due to it freezing and balling up in the horses hooves).

Arlington's is a lighter color, almost like an ocean sand from a distance.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by jwkniska

I'm not sure exactly which blend they are, but.... Arlington, Keeneland and Del Mar have the exact same mix. Turfway and Woodbine have a different mix, which is because they run in the winter (they started with the AP, KEE, DM mix, then changed it due to it freezing and balling up in the horses hooves).

Arlington's is a lighter color, almost like an ocean sand from a distance.

Thanks for that.

Sounds like Arlington have the same style as Wolverhampton do. Probably not exact, but that is a very light colour, where as Lingfield is a much darker colour polytrack

[ndjake]

There were 3 breakdowns over the past two days and one horse had a heart attack and died instantly on the track. The two horses who broke down on Thurs are both from the Catalano/Calabrese tandem. I asked my trainer about claiming the one in the 6th race (limited races/decent beyers and breeding, coming off a win at 10 dropping to 5). He indicated that he had asked the trainer who had the horse prior to Cat/Cal who said that both knees were totally shot and that the horse was actually vanned back to the barn following its win in the previous race so we luckily passed. Don't know the backstory on the other horse that broke down Thurs other than the fact that both of these horses were claimed. The sad irony of the story is that Cat/Cal claimed the horse that broke down on Friday. Unfortunately losers all the way around.

In talking to trainers they say that the poly has led to more minor injuries in the morning than they recall from recent years. Probably leading to some of the breakdowns as some trainers have a reputation for running sore horses.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Cannon... Did you notice the gate scratch in the 6th? Im sure the managment didnt want 3 breakdowns in one day so they are being extra careful on the heels of the million. Of course FCC wanted to lose the bad horses, but I doubt he wanted them to breakdown, and I dont think he would have ran them if they felt they were in harms way. Its sad for anyone to lose one on the track, but the fact is they broke down on polytrack. They have had 6 in the last week, thats significant regardless of who they are breaking down for. Especially when I have noticed a significant change in recent times at Arlington. It seems to me they tried to speed up the track and it put the horses in danger.

I am always leery of horses on the hard drop to the bottom, especially for connections that aren't the 'sentimental' type. When these type breakdown, track surface is usually incidental.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Habersham000

Now is we could clean this sport up and improve the breed while banning all forms of steriods especially with the yearlings and 2 year olds going to auction, along with brute and lasix there would be far less breakdowns all together everywhere.

Staements like this usually do more harm to the sport than go about solving any real issues. Blanket statements without evidence causes more disinformation to be taken as truth to the detriment of all of us.

Bute has been used on horses since the 60's, well before the "deteration" of the breed and I would love to see evidence that Lasix causes more breakdowns.

[ArlJim78]

I didn't even know they used brute on horses. must help to control the smell.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I didn't even know they used brute on horses. must help to control the smell.

yeah, arlignton allows brute...but other jurisdictions frown on it. allerjees and all that.

[deltagulf]

i say it was bad horses with problems and not the race surface.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by deltagulf

i say it was bad horses with problems and not the race surface.

Isn't that usually the case on dirt as well?

[sumitas]

We talkin da real deal joe. We face you if ya got da problem. Bring it on bum.

[The Bid]

Four breakdowns

The sight of four horses failing to finish races in two days last week dredged up unpleasant memories of last season, when Arlington breakdowns put the track surface here under close scrutiny, but Arlington made it through Million weekend without further incident.

Two horses racing Thursday on Polytrack suffered leg injuries and were pulled up and vanned off, and a third horse Friday, Carmel My Belle, broke down badly in the second race. A race later, Shake went down on the backstretch, but he was the victim of a pulmonary hemorrhage rather than a leg injury.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Four breakdowns

The sight of four horses failing to finish races in two days last week dredged up unpleasant memories of last season, when Arlington breakdowns put the track surface here under close scrutiny, but Arlington made it through Million weekend without further incident.

Two horses racing Thursday on Polytrack suffered leg injuries and were pulled up and vanned off, and a third horse Friday, Carmel My Belle, broke down badly in the second race. A race later, Shake went down on the backstretch, but he was the victim of a pulmonary hemorrhage rather than a leg injury.

It doesn't stop all breakdowns.

Did we cover that yet, or not?

[The Bid]

Just want to let some of you who dont follow racing in on whats happening with this surface.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Just want to let some of you who dont follow racing in on whats happening with this surface.

er....this is a horse racing board. why would people be here who don't follow racing, and why would they care about a racing issue if they didn't follow racing?

[JJP]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

If poly is managed peoperly, it can be the best surface in the world.

Not to watch or wager on. This years Blue Grass was the ugliest Grade 1 race I have ever witnessed. Nothing is more boring than watching crawlfest paces with bunched fields, Euro style. The ugliest graded sprint? No question it was In Summations recent win.

[NoChanceToDance]

I sense that some of you guys cannot take change very well. Polytrack is here to stay and it is a good surface, if your tracks managed it correctly it would be altogether different.

Sure it won't be as quick as dirt, and nor will it be so harsh on horses. Get used to it, if you find it difficult to bet on, don't bet on it....... is anyone making you?

Stop blaming the surface and start blaming the tracks, if they looked after it you would see a massive surface. I have seen just how good Polytrack is over the last five or so years to know that it isn't the surface causing all of these problems in America.

[_ed_]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

I sense that some of you guys cannot take change very well. Polytrack is here to stay and it is a good surface, if your tracks managed it correctly it would be altogether different.

Sure it won't be as quick as dirt, and nor will it be so harsh on horses. Get used to it, if you find it difficult to bet on, don't bet on it....... is anyone making you?

Stop blaming the surface and start blaming the tracks, if they looked after it you would see a massive surface. I have seen just how good Polytrack is over the last five or so years to know that it isn't the surface causing all of these problems in America.

Yeah I totally agree, great post.

Have to say I've had very little experience with the surface though, the only time I've seen it live was when I was on a family holiday in the UK in 2005 and went out to Lingfield. But that was a totally awesome day, the track was absolutely beautiful and winners were coming from all over the place - a couple of horses led all the way, some came from the back, some burst through from midfield.

And not only that, but the best horses were winning - one of the races was won by a horse called Cesare.

I hope it ends up exactly the same at the US tracks.

[The Bid]

2 more breakdowns friday. Looks like its time for a reality check.