Was Masochistic stiffed in his debut?

[Bigsmc]

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53846

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

They have balls. Good for them

Oh yes.. They're so noble with their grandstanding.

As Jay Privman tweeted, 'Not defending what's gone on with Masochistic, but I remember when Shoemaker & Charlie Whittingham would operate similarly and no one ever questioned them.'

And of course like every other wrong-headed notion about International racing, no one is getting 'banned for life' for setting up scores. Obviously they weren't following Barney Curley's exploits last year. http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...ghlight=curley

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Oh yes.. They're so noble with their grandstanding.

As Jay Privman tweeted, 'Not defending what's gone on with Masochistic, but I remember when Shoemaker & Charlie Whittingham would operate similarly and no one ever questioned them.'

And of course like every other wrong-headed notion about International racing, no one is getting 'banned for life' for setting up scores. Obviously they weren't following Barney Curley's exploits last year. http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...ghlight=curley

You don't think there's a difference between "giving a horse a race" and having a firster test positive for aceprozamine at 40 times the allowable limit?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

You don't think there's a difference between "giving a horse a race" and having a firster test positive for aceprozamine at 40 times the allowable limit?

I do.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Oh yes.. They're so noble with their grandstanding.

As Jay Privman tweeted, 'Not defending what's gone on with Masochistic, but I remember when Shoemaker & Charlie Whittingham would operate similarly and no one ever questioned them.'

And of course like every other wrong-headed notion about International racing, no one is getting 'banned for life' for setting up scores. Obviously they weren't following Barney Curley's exploits last year. http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...ghlight=curley

There are some legitimate differences with the Curley coup, mostly in that the public wasn't taken for a ride, but rather the bookmakers.

That said, when the bookmakers lose, the UK racing industry loses money too.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

There are some legitimate differences with the Curley coup, mostly in that the public wasn't taken for a ride, but rather the bookmakers.

That said, when the bookmakers lose, the UK racing industry loses money too.

Assuming there is some kind of wrongdoing going on, it is somehow more acceptable to defraud bookmakers than the public?

[Cannon Shell]

While the ace positive makes Avila look really bad, for those who bet on the horse what is the difference between not trying or not trying plus acepromazine?

Originally Posted by Kasept

Oh yes.. They're so noble with their grandstanding.

As Jay Privman tweeted, 'Not defending what's gone on with Masochistic, but I remember when Shoemaker & Charlie Whittingham would operate similarly and no one ever questioned them.'

And of course like every other wrong-headed notion about International racing, no one is getting 'banned for life' for setting up scores. Obviously they weren't following Barney Curley's exploits last year. http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...ghlight=curley

If it was excused before, it should be excused every time? The tweet itself is actually defending whats going on with Masochistic. He established precedent with that history lesson.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

If it was excused before, it should be excused every time? The tweet itself is actually defending whats going on with Masochistic. He established precedent with that history lesson.

I could be wrong, but I don't think guys like Whittingham or a Bill Mott are running their debuters way over the limit on Ace.

Sure, Masochistic got a bizarre ride in his debut. And trainers have every right to run debuters who are way short or poorly meant.

However, you have to draw the line at 'nobbling'

If you're going to run a horse with the intent of trying to lose the race, and the jockey is going to give a ride that suggests the intent is trying to lose. That's fine. Just don't compound the shadiness of it by being over the limit for a Tranq.

Of course, this whole situation probably stays under the radar if not for the stunningly brazen placement of where Masochistic was placed in his 2nd career start.

Anyone familiar with modern bookmaking in the Internet age, understands the high limits and caps books offer on races at CD on Derby day.

[Danzig]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-fined-by-chrb

[Danzig]

everyone says they want to clean up the sport...and then when something happens, there are shrugs.
deeds, not words.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53846

Hi Luv... I had thought about sticking it here, on this thread BUT wanted the focus to be on the positive (their action) instead of a footnote to a negative.

It's all good though... it really doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Kasept

Oh yes.. They're so noble with their grandstanding.

As Jay Privman tweeted, 'Not defending what's gone on with Masochistic, but I remember when Shoemaker & Charlie Whittingham would operate similarly and no one ever questioned them.'

And of course like every other wrong-headed notion about International racing, no one is getting 'banned for life' for setting up scores. Obviously they weren't following Barney Curley's exploits last year. http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...ghlight=curley

With respect, if this is grandstanding? I'm all for it. I think the feeling of the line about being banned for life was what was important and not taking it in a literal sense.

Originally Posted by Danzig

everyone says they want to clean up the sport...and then when something happens, there are shrugs.
deeds, not words.

Exactly.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Cardus

How does Privman's Twitter remark relate to these two owners?

Didn't know it was required to..