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#21
09-12-2009, 12:10 PM
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#22
09-12-2009, 12:34 PM
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She debuted in January of her 3yo year and won by double digits. She came back in an allowance in less than two weeks and won by double digits again. In less than two weeks again, she stretched out to 1 1/16 miles and won by 5 (in 141 3/5) over previous years Oak Leaf (g1) runnerup Sophisticated Girl, who ended up being a pretty nice producer. Laid up for about 2.5 months, she comes back in the Rail Bird and won by 2.5. About three weeks later, she's sent to Belmont, where she goes off at 5/2 in the grade 1 Acorn. She romped in this race by 7 lengths. In second? Princess Rooney, that years Kentucky Oaks winner (at 1/5) and undefeated at 10 for 10! Given four months off, she returned to California for one last start. She runs second to the good mare Fabulous Notion and is never heard from again. Her career line was 5 wins and 1 second in 6 starts, all in her 3yo season. She went on to have a really interesting and unusual career as a broodmare. Her progeny raced in South America and Japan, for the most part, and her best offspring was a filly named Ski Paradise, a grade 1 winner that ran second in the Breeders Cup Mile to Lure.
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#23
09-12-2009, 06:04 PM
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#24
09-12-2009, 07:40 PM
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feel better now? you're forgetting that people do this with all types of sports-who was better, joe montana or tom brady? were the patriots better than the '72 dolphins? sampras or federer, navratilova or graf?
__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#25
09-12-2009, 08:11 PM
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Believe it.
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#26
09-12-2009, 08:46 PM
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#27
09-13-2009, 07:54 AM
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#28
09-14-2009, 06:48 PM
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Give me Go for Wand as the best 3yo filly I've seen followed by Miesque and then Zarkava. Winning Colors is next and then Rachel.
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#29
09-14-2009, 08:55 PM
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#30
09-14-2009, 10:23 PM
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You are probably right about KG with Zarkeva.
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#31
09-14-2009, 11:20 PM
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__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#32
09-15-2009, 02:23 PM
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Not just you ... The novelty of running out of her sex group has over elevated her ... She is a terrific horse, but has done nothing to leapfrog her over some on your list, Ruffian, or to be mentioned elsewhere in the same breath as Man O' War ... So true that this year's 3 year old males were exactly as you described them until Rachel beat them, and the older, pretty similar thoughts there ... It is ironic, however, that she has been beaten by fillies, though not this year--and the horse that got closest to her until Macho Again, won one race this year, albeit a big one ... Summer Bird seems to be at best staying--or what is now considered staying,-- and he has the best chance of the 3 year olds to catch her at 10 furlongs if this scenario develops ... I have immense respect for any horse that actually runs a solid campaign and performs as flawlessly as she has, but to elevate her to Olympia--leapfrogging over the greats of the past--is blatant goo-gooism ... With all the brouhaha about the " grueling " first quarter she ran in the Woodward, long forgotten is the identical LAST quarter run by another girl ... Blatherskate ...
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#33
09-15-2009, 03:20 PM
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I'd rate Zarkava above RA. She beat older males going several distances including 12f in the most coveted race in Europe, the Arc. Miesque was pretty good as well.
Comparing RA to Ruffian is not entirely fair because Ruffian died in early July of her 3yo year. You cannot project what she would have done had she lived and RA does have a full campaign. Of course if you stop the clock at July 6th and compare them it's more fair. If you do so, RA wins for her Preakness win.
__________________
RIP Monroe.
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#34
09-15-2009, 03:35 PM
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http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-rocks-the-spa
an excerpt: Rachel Alexandra had become the first filly to win the Woodward. The last 3-year-old filly to even run in the race was Summer Guest in 1972. This was the equivalent of a 23-year-old girl beating 30-something males. No 3-year-old filly had ever defeated older males in a two-turn, grade I dirt race. The last to win a major two-turn dirt stakes over her elders was Misty Morn in the 1955 Gallant Fox Handicap. now, i would not compare her to ruffian at this point...after all, ruffian is ruffian. the main problem with comparing her to ruffian is that people who knew of that horse know what a horse she was-and having another like her somehow would make her less special...there's also the tug because of how ruffian ended up. as for the other fillies, i don't know that rachel could beat personal ensign, or several of the others top distaffers over the years. but i do know that rachel is a special horse, and is a horse many have waited some time to see come around. i think she's the best in a while, and is worthy of a lot of accolades thrown her way. as for saying what's she's done isn't special-if it was so easy, you'd think races like hers would happen more often. it's impossible to say she's better than others from the past-based on what could you make that contention? suffice it to say tho that she's been a very good horse, and has been a welcome change from the news of eight belles and barbaro, and let's people know that horses don't croak just because they run fast or hard.
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#35
09-15-2009, 03:41 PM
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Rachel and Euro fillies: no comparison There have been published comments recently stating that Rachel Alexandra’s conquests over males is not as big an accomplishment as one might think, because it is done all the time in Europe. It’s true that fillies face and defeat colts on a much more regular basis in Europe than they do in America. Of course, most top-class fillies are forced to run against colts in Europe, due to the lack of group I championship caliber races in the fall. It should be noted that a typical European filly, especially a 3-year-old, is given two or three races in the spring, then has the entire summer off, and returns for two races in the fall. That was Zarkava’s campaign last year; three races in the spring and two in the fall. Europeans as a whole (Sea the Stars and the top Ballydoyle runners are an exception) do not run steadily throughout the year and have much easier campaigns than American horses. You’d be hard-pressed to find any European filly that has ever defeated males in May, August, and September, as Rachel Alexandra has done. Almost all the European filly conquests over males come in the fall. They do not win classics and they rarely win a midsummer stakes against males. For example, no filly has won the English Derby since 1916. There is no record of a filly winning the 2,000 Guineas in modern times, or the French Derby. Only two fillies have won the Irish Derby in at least the last 60 years. No filly has won the King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes in 29 years, and the last one that did was a 4-year-old. Only two fillies have won the Eclipse Stakes in at least the last 39 years and they were both 4-year-olds. It's been 33 years since a 3-year-old filly has won the Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud. When people say fillies defeat colts in Europe all the time, they are referring to the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, and as stated earlier, those fillies normally are fresher horses at that time of the year, and unlike the French colts, are coming off a competitive group I prep in the Prix Vermeille, while many of the French colts are coming of slowly run, paceless races in short fields in either the Prix Foy for older horses or the Prix Niel for 3-year-olds. In short, even in Europe, it is extremely rare to see a 3-year-old filly win a classic against males, and almost as rare to see them win a grade I midsummer stakes of championship caliber against males, both of which Rachel Alexandra has done. It is difficult to compare racing in Europe to racing in America, and what happens across the Atlantic should not serve as a gauge in assessing the accomplishments of a horse in the United States. Rachel Alexandra’s feats this year were unprecedented in modern times — even by European standards
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#36
09-15-2009, 06:09 PM
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I think you have to put her in the conversation with Ruffian, which is saying a whole lot. Clearly, Ruffian was better as a 2yo, breaking track records in her maiden races, then winning by daylight every time out. I would put Rachel's 3yo spring on par with Ruffian, and she took it to a different level in the Haskell and Woodward. I'm just happy to see a filly in this day and age that can even get folks to start talking about "Best Ever". True, these types just don't come along, so enjoy the moment.
__________________
Do I think Charity can win? Well, I am walking around in yesterday's suit.
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#37
09-15-2009, 06:12 PM
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__________________
  #Grand
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#38
09-15-2009, 06:16 PM
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People are so caught up that they are forgetting the fact that while Rachel is the first to do this and the first to do that, it's not like she's the one that's been successful after so many others have failed. Look at the Woodward. No 3yo filly had even run in the race in the past 36 years. She's special. There should be no question about that. And she's deservedly put herself into the conversation of best of this or best of that. As more opportunities are given, you'll see these kinds of things start to happen more and more. Take Eight Belles, for example. When she ran second in the Derby, a huge deal was made of it. Then Rags won the Belmont the next year and Rachel wins the Preakness this year. Suddenly, Eight Belles' accomplishment doesn't seem so incredible.
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine Last edited by King Glorious : 09-15-2009 at 06:26 PM.
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#39
09-15-2009, 06:43 PM
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And to the remark that no three year oild filly defeated older males in a G1 two turn race, I would suggest that Busher be revisted winning both the 10 furlong Arlington Handicap and Washington Park Handicap dusting HOY 4year old Armed at 10 furlongs.... There was NO grading system as such then, but they were certainly the equivalent ... Wake me up when Macho Again is mentioned in the same breath as Armed ... A G1 championship race is only a championship if the entries say so---ONLY Rachel's did in the Woodward, by a head ... As far as comparing the seasons that Rachel and Ruffian had, I am more interested in adding in the supernatural speed of Ruffian---usually under a pull to slow down-- which Rachel does not quite have, and the range of distances she won over in her brief time on earth ... Show me Rachel's time records, show me Rachel going a last eight in 11 plus at 12 furlongs--show me works faster than races and I will listen ... Rachel and Zenyatta are the best two horses out there at present, but after watching 50 years of racing and being priviledged to see Kelso, Fager, Ruffian , Bid, Cigar and others run into the record books, I can tell great without adding hyperbole ... Rachel made history with the Woodward, but Jackson got gravy with the opposition this year, and marketed her brilliantly ... Remember that ...
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