Vindication..........

Well i'll put my neck out there and say that Sky Mesa will be the best of the bunch. Although, I do agree, if not bred to the right mares, soundness will come into play. He's a drop dead gorgous looking stallion though and a pedigree that compares to any around.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Is anyone as excited as me to see how his babies will run?

The short answer is.....yes. This horse had speed AND had a pedigree which suggested he would have been able to run all day, if he had made it to the longer 3yo races. By Seattle Slew and out of a graded stakes winning daughter of Strawberry Road, is pretty damn good.
Strawberry Road was at his best going 2000m - 2400m, where he won a number of G1s and G2s, and Seattle Slew was....well Seattle Slew. If bred to the right mares Vindication should be able to produce some quality classic-type horses, but he himself had enough speed to suggest his offspring might be versatile runners who could be good sprinters too. I don't think it will be long before he sires a G1 winner.

I hope you're correct and he certainly had the speed which is an important ingredient in being a successful stallion. I think the real key with him is going to be an introduction of as many lines of La Troienne as possible.

Vindication is tail-female to Adargatis, a daughter of Helene de Troie, which makes her a half to La Troienne. I know this linebreeding has been tried on numerous occasions and with very good success in quality. I believe, from a linebreeding perspective, this is the main key to his pedigree, along with the lines of Frizette and his lack of Mr. Prospector... he should do well with Mr. P line mares to bring an added Frizette line... arguably the main reason why Indy does so well with Mr. P mares.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Scav

Three of those are the nuts..Harlan's Holiday, take it easy

I doubt Sky Mesa's will be sound. Anything with Pulpit is questionable. But Empire Maker and Mineshaft, they are going to throw some serious runners

Well, Harlan's Holiday IS a 3 time G1 winner who won graded stakes races at ages 2, 3, and 4 and is out of an Affirmed mare. He might not be up there with Mineshaft and Vindication, but I would not rule him out as a potentially good stallion.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Balletto

I hope you're correct and he certainly had the speed which is an important ingredient in being a successful stallion. I think the real key with him is going to be an introduction of as many lines of La Troienne as possible.

Vindication is tail-female to Adargatis, a daughter of Helene de Troie, which makes her a half to La Troienne. I know this linebreeding has been tried on numerous occasions and with very good success in quality. I believe, from a linebreeding perspective, this is the main key to his pedigree, along with the lines of Frizette and his lack of Mr. Prospector... he should do well with Mr. P line mares to bring an added Frizette line... arguably the main reason why Indy does so well with Mr. P mares.

I like ANY horse that lacks Mr. Prospector in his pedigree.

Originally Posted by miraja2

Well, Harlan's Holiday IS a 3 time G1 winner who won graded stakes races at ages 2, 3, and 4 and is out of an Affirmed mare. He might not be up there with Mineshaft and Vindication, but I would not rule him out as a potentially good stallion.

He's got a family to impress as well. The Princessnesian/Alanesian/Alablue clan is a classy one. Dont forget, Boldnesian was a product of this family and I firmly believe some families produce stallions, others just dont. I always like to see a proven stallion of top quality in the mix on the bottom side when looking at a stallion prospect.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by miraja2

The short answer is.....yes. This horse had speed AND had a pedigree which suggested he would have been able to run all day, if he had made it to the longer 3yo races. By Seattle Slew and out of a graded stakes winning daughter of Strawberry Road, is pretty damn good.
Strawberry Road was at his best going 2000m - 2400m, where he won a number of G1s and G2s, and Seattle Slew was....well Seattle Slew. If bred to the right mares Vindication should be able to produce some quality classic-type horses, but he himself had enough speed to suggest his offspring might be versatile runners who could be good sprinters too. I don't think it will be long before he sires a G1 winner.

He was bred to Silverbulletday in 2005.

[Cajungator26]

Since we're discussing stallions, what do you guys think of this one?

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/isd...ion_no=4308090

Eventually, I will have a decent mare... eventually. LOL

[slotdirt]

Incidentally, Harlan's Holiday is just a fabulous looking animal. So is Medaglia D'Oro, for whatever that's worth.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

He was bred to Silverbulletday in 2005.

Well I would say that a mare that won 12 graded stakes races at distances of 8.5 furlongs or farther might be the right kind of mare to prouduce a classic winner. A BC Juvenile winner bred to a BC Juvenile Filly winner huh? Remind me to put a little cash on that horse in his or her 2yo debut!!

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Well I would say that a mare that won 12 graded stakes races at distances of 8.5 furlongs or farther might be the right kind of mare to prouduce a classic winner. A BC Juvenile winner bred to a BC Juvenile Filly winner huh? Remind me to put a little cash on that horse in his or her 2yo debut!!

I thought the same thing.

She had a dark bay filly... looks just like mama and dad.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Since we're discussing stallions, what do you guys think of this one?

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/isd...ion_no=4308090

Eventually, I will have a decent mare... eventually. LOL

His pedigree is ok for the regional market but I think there's better stallions in the Fl market for both racing and selling. With that said, i'd look for more lines of Pocahontas through Tom Rolfe, Chieftain, Alzao etc. It probably wouldnt hurt if he was sent some nice Notebook, Drone and Sir Wimborne mares to bring in more Cap and Bells.

[Betsy]

I adored Slew, so I should be excited. I'm so/so on him. I'm much more excited about Mineshaft and Sky Mesa.

[Danzig]

i'm looking forward to vindications...hopefully he'll be able to pick up where ap indy will leave off....after all, indy isn't getting any younger. would love to see another top sire by slew.

i went to three chimneys, and got to see war chant, rahy, point given, wild again and smarty...smarty looked like a quarter horse to me, but was far from grumpy. point given on the other hand had only one interest, his feed bucket. asked about slew o'gold, but they don't let anyone near him.

we also went to clairborne, which i thought was fantastic. we got a pic next to smarty, but at claiborne i got a pic of me petting monarchos! he's a sweet horse. seeking the gold on the other hand....yikes. pulpit was a good guy as well, and i was thrilled to see my 'namesake' danzig. i would suggest going to claiborne, a lot of history there.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I adored Slew, so I should be excited. I'm so/so on him. I'm much more excited about Mineshaft and Sky Mesa.

i saw the picture of that sky mesa filly that went for a million...she's a beauty.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i'm looking forward to vindications...hopefully he'll be able to pick up where ap indy will leave off....after all, indy isn't getting any younger. would love to see another top sire by slew.

i went to three chimneys, and got to see war chant, rahy, point given, wild again and smarty...smarty looked like a quarter horse to me, but was far from grumpy. point given on the other hand had only one interest, his feed bucket. asked about slew o'gold, but they don't let anyone near him.

we also went to clairborne, which i thought was fantastic. we got a pic next to smarty, but at claiborne i got a pic of me petting monarchos! he's a sweet horse. seeking the gold on the other hand....yikes. pulpit was a good guy as well, and i was thrilled to see my 'namesake' danzig. i would suggest going to claiborne, a lot of history there.

A colleague of mine is friends with the Squires family who bred Monarchos. I'm glad to hear that he was friendly.

[Danzig]

it was amazing to me how laid back he was...like he's someones pet. very gentle and easy going. they only led him and pulpit out. seeking the gold, he warned us to stay back and he opened the top half of his stall door. my god, that horse is huge. and very, very aggressive. he knows he's the king of the place there. i also got to see arch, he's one i have high hopes for, and boundary.

[Pointg5]

[QUOTE
we also went to clairborne, which i thought was fantastic. we got a pic next to smarty, but at claiborne i got a pic of me petting monarchos! he's a sweet horse. seeking the gold on the other hand....yikes. pulpit was a good guy as well, and i was thrilled to see my 'namesake' danzig. i would suggest going to claiborne, a lot of history there.[/quote]


I have driven by Claiborne about a 100 times, never been there. I have to go to a wedding in Paris in September, did you have to make an appointment or did they have tours?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

it was amazing to me how laid back he was...like he's someones pet. very gentle and easy going. they only led him and pulpit out. seeking the gold, he warned us to stay back and he opened the top half of his stall door. my god, that horse is huge. and very, very aggressive. he knows he's the king of the place there. i also got to see arch, he's one i have high hopes for, and boundary.

I have heard that Jazil is aggressive like that as well. I don't think I'd want to breed to a horse like that, but I guess personality isn't important in racing.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Yeah, they keep dynaformer, rahy and I think one other horse is a barn off to the side so they dont get so disturbed. But it was a great tour. I would suggest everyone to go see the farm.

Eb....how much something like that run bro?