Thorograph #'s- Past Derby Winners

[smuthg]

I went back through the numbers for past Derby winners over the 25 years and I was surprised to see how high some of the numbers were. Has there been a change in the Thorograph formula/numbers over the last several years? For example, according to T/G Ferdinand got a 7, Sunday Silence got a 6.1 and Real Quiet got a 3.3. With that as a backdrop, Barbaro got a -2. I was as big a fan of Barbaro as anyone, but was he that much better than those 3 or is it an issue of a change in the formula?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

i dont know but the sheet guys took it in the culo..with saint last year..voodoo pick

[Scav]

Horses are just getting faster, which is a topic that is covered in Thorograph's seminars that are also somewhere the archive.

If you want to learn about figs in general, alot of the archive material is a great listen

[golfer]

You answered your own question, Scav... as far as Thoro is concerned, horses are just getting faster. Not only will it probably take a negative # to win this year, it will most likely need to be done by a horse that has already run one (another study noted very few horses run tops to win the derby).

[Scav]

Originally Posted by golfer

You answered your own question, Scav... as far as Thoro is concerned, horses are just getting faster. Not only will it probably take a negative # to win this year, it will most likely need to be done by a horse that has already run one (another study noted very few horses run tops to win the derby).

I didn't ask the question, Smuthg did.....

[golfer]

Sorry, I was doing my speed reading excercises, not paying close enough attention

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

Horses are just getting faster, which is a topic that is covered in Thorograph's seminars that are also somewhere the archive.

If you want to learn about figs in general, alot of the archive material is a great listen

To think that Barbaro was 10 sheet points faster than Ferdinand or Sunday Silence is really funny

[cloud_break]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

To think that Barbaro was 10 sheet points faster than Ferdinand or Sunday Silence is really funny

Its more than funny, its riduculous. Horses might be getting faster, but to suggest that Barbaro was that much faster than those two..........

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

To think that Barbaro was 10 sheet points faster than Ferdinand or Sunday Silence is really funny

Really funny. Please tell these nice folks that horses can't read, sheets, totes, the DRF...
"Really funny" says it all.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Cardus

The same phenomenon has occured with Ragozin Sheets as well. If you look at the Ragozin home page and click on "Past Derby Winners," you'll see a similar trend.

The horses are running faster, they need more time between races... and so on.

For instance, the notion that Ghostzapper was faster than Secretariat is on the surface laughable.

Not that I am needed to defend TG (or am in any way qualified), but the way I rationalize these seemingly laughable comparisons, is if you put Secretariat in the same conditions 20 years later (track speed, "training techniques", etc..) that Ghostzapper ran with, he would be running much faster numbers than he did in the 70's. I would only compare horses from different eras to their competition at the time. This is simply my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by golfer

Not that I am needed to defend TG (or am in any way qualified), but the way I rationalize these seemingly laughable comparisons, is if you put Secretariat in the same conditions 20 years later (track speed, "training techniques", etc..) that Ghostzapper ran with, he would be running much faster numbers than he did in the 70's. I would only compare horses from different eras to their competition at the time. This is simply my opinion, I could be wrong.

That is if you take the figures at face value. They contend that tracks are much slower overall nowdays which may be true however it seems hard to believe that they are that much slower. Of course turf horses are also much faster and I find it hard to believe that the turf is any faster or slower.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by smuthg

I went back through the numbers for past Derby winners over the 25 years and I was surprised to see how high some of the numbers were. Has there been a change in the Thorograph formula/numbers over the last several years? For example, according to T/G Ferdinand got a 7, Sunday Silence got a 6.1 and Real Quiet got a 3.3. With that as a backdrop, Barbaro got a -2. I was as big a fan of Barbaro as anyone, but was he that much better than those 3 or is it an issue of a change in the formula?

..............something changed, or t/g is a complete joke. sunday silence went 1.47 and 2 in the S.A. derby.