Discreet Cat's Beyer was a 115

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Ghostzapper got a 116 in the Vosburgh as a 3YO.

Discreet's number in this is a 116 as well. Of course Ghost wasn't giving weight to elders in the Vos, in fact he got a break....But no matter.

[Revolution]

Discreet Cat goes 5 for 5 next year and retires undefeated and he will join the all-time greats. Ghostzapper is never getting there.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Revolution

Discreet Cat goes 5 for 5 next year and retires undefeated and he will join the all-time greats. Ghostzapper is never getting there.

See Ghostzapper is already there, so that's unfair. I venture to say that Discreet is a consistently faster 3 yr old. That's all you can say at this point.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

See Ghostzapper is already there, so that's unfair. I venture to say that Discreet is a consistently faster 3 yr old. That's all you can say at this point.

Ghostzapper retired with a grand total of 4 grade 1 wins in 4 years of racing.

Invasor won that many this year alone.

Discreet Cat will likely finish with 5 or 6 in 3 years of racing. He has to win them though or obviously he is not an all-time great. He would likely win the Dubai Classic, Breeders Cup Classic, Met Mile type race, Whitney, and JCGC and have to beat Invasor to do it all. Not easy, but if he does it, he is an all-time great.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Revolution

Ghostzapper retired with a grand total of 4 grade 1 wins in 4 years of racing.

Invasor won that many this year alone.

Discreet Cat will likely finish with 5 or 6 in 3 years of racing. He has to win them though or obviously he is not an all-time great. He would likely win the Dubai Classic, Breeders Cup Classic, Met Mile type race, Whitney, and JCGC and have to beat Invasor to do it all. Not easy, but if he does it, he is an all-time great.

I agree with that. But he still has to do it.

[todko]

Wow, I'm actually starting to have a little bit of faith in Beyer numbers. That 115 is about what DC deserves. The track was ridiculously fast.

DC is very good. Much better than Bernardini ever was or ever would be. DC's not Ghostzapper. And don't hold your breath about seeing him much next year.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by todko

Wow, I'm actually starting to have a little bit of faith in Beyer numbers.

I am sure everyone at Beyer Associates is breathing a deep sigh of relief.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I am sure everyone at Beyer Associates is breathing a deep sigh of relief.

Of course, there's still that little matter of the 116 (cough, cough) Beyer gave Sinister Minister in April.

Beyer better start offering a dental plan over there.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I love how you are already giving DC multiple grade 1 wins next year. Nothing like speculation. Sorry if I'm not ready to give him HOY for next year, not just yet.

I am confused, Discreet Cat ( and for that matter NoBizlikeshowbiz ) didn't even run at Aqueduct yesterday....or at least that's what Revolution's alter ego George Washington told us last week.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I am confused, Discreet Cat ( and for that matter NoBizlikeshowbiz ) didn't even run at Aqueduct yesterday....or at least that's what Revolution's alter ego George Washington told us last week.

If I had their money I wouldn't be here wasting my time talking to you.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Revolution

If I had their money I wouldn't be here wasting my time talking to you.

Spoken like a true genius.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Discreet's number in this is a 116 as well. Of course Ghost wasn't giving weight to elders in the Vos, in fact he got a break....But no matter.

Not sure the argument, and I never understood the reluctance to either admit that Ghostzapper was an exceptional animal, or detract from one horse because another is good.

Right now Ghostzapper has Grade 1 wins at 6 1/2 furlongs, one mile, 1 1/8 miles and 1 1/4 miles, each one in exceptionally fast time. Discreet Cat has the opportunity to at least reasonably match that. I think ALL racing fans hope that he at least gets that opportunity. Nothing he does will diminish Ghostzappers accomplishments and awesome performances.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Not sure the argument, and I never understood the reluctance to either admit that Ghostzapper was an exceptional animal, or detract from one horse because another is good.

Right now Ghostzapper has Grade 1 wins at 6 1/2 furlongs, one mile, 1 1/8 miles and 1 1/4 miles, each one in exceptionally fast time. Discreet Cat has the opportunity to at least reasonably match that. I think ALL racing fans hope that he at least gets that opportunity. Nothing he does will diminish Ghostzappers accomplishments and awesome performances.

Just pointing it out Andy. As I've said many times on here, I believe Zapper and Mineshaft were the 2 best horses since Spec Bid. Obviously Zapper was a unique and dynamic a horse as you are going to see....And the way Discreet runs is similar at least so far.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Just pointing it out Andy. As I've said many times on here, I believe Zapper and Mineshaft were the 2 best horses since Spec Bid. Obviously Zapper was a unique and dynamic a horse as you are going to see....And the way Discreet runs is similar at least so far.

In that photo was the LAST time you'll EVER get 5-1 on him again!

Who cares what his beyer was. If he won and his beyer was 95 would that keep you from betting him in his next race? I don't think so. Beyers are one of the components that play a role in handicapping. Beyers coupled with times are a good tool.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Who cares what his beyer was. If he won and his beyer was 95 would that keep you from betting him in his next race? I don't think so. Beyers are one of the components that play a role in handicapping. Beyers coupled with times are a good tool.

Weren't you the one just saying that we shouldn't care about times? Do you even think about what you write anymore?

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Weren't you the one just saying that we shouldn't care about times? Do you even think about what you write anymore?

Its about a blend of things, in varying degrees of importance.
After the 3rd race on Saturday, which was laughable when those two "noble steeds" went 7f in rocketship time, I told the guy I was talking to that the Cigar would go in 32 and change easily.
Thats why I didn't join in the unending praise about the horse based on his raw time in the race.
I think that was pretty rational.
I think his sheet number will be in line with his last two races, still great, but not representing anything more than what he had already shown us.
What did impress me more than anything were the "gears" he showed.
His tractability and being able to start and stop on command were very impressive. It showed us that he has a fine mind, and that in teh heat of battle he can run as fast as he does when he has things his own way.
I do think the setup he got was as perfect as one could ever hope for.
By that I mean the speed horse who had seemingly no shot to win going out and doing the dirty work on Silver Train and forcing him to rush up and engage in blistering fractions on the inside.
Figures are 1/2 the equation, how they ACCOMPLISH the figure is the other half.
Euro seems to waver back and forth on everything, and most of what he posts is to try and get reactions out of folks and its tiresome.
Folks who can't seem to form and post enough intelligent thoughts who therefore go to the ole "I'll try and get a reaction out of people" posts are low on my list of "must read posters".

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Its about a blend of things, in varying degrees of importance.
After the 3rd race on Saturday, which was laughable when those two "noble steeds" went 7f in rocketship time, I told the guy I was talking to that the Cigar would go in 32 and change easily.
Thats why I didn't join in the unending praise about the horse based on his raw time in the race.
I think that was pretty rational.
I think his sheet number will be in line with his last two races, still great, but not representing anything more than what he had already shown us.
What did impress me more than anything were the "gears" he showed.
His tractability and being able to start and stop on command were very impressive. It showed us that he has a fine mind, and that in teh heat of battle he can run as fast as he does when he has things his own way.
I do think the setup he got was as perfect as one could ever hope for.
By that I mean the speed horse who had seemingly no shot to win going out and doing the dirty work on Silver Train and forcing him to rush up and engage in blistering fractions on the inside.
Figures are 1/2 the equation, how they ACCOMPLISH the figure is the other half.
Euro seems to waver back and forth on everything, and most of what he posts is to try and get reactions out of folks and its tiresome.
Folks who can't seem to form and post enough intelligent thoughts who therefore go to the ole "I'll try and get a reaction out of people" posts are low on my list of "must read posters".

Tracks are always super fast when a horse sets a track record. Aqueduct was on Saturday and I'd bet it was also super fast the day Easy Goer ran in 1989. It can be weather or the way they work the track or, most likely, both but that's what I've always seen.

I just wish Gomez had pushed a little more late or that the others had held on a 1/16th more or whatever and that the final time was 1/5 faster. I know the colt was was going as fast as he could, but in an all out drive, who knows? It's not inconceiveable that under greater pressure DC could have responded and gone a click faster. At the same time, the 3rd qtr really put him into his fastest gear and he just maintained it to the wire, so maybe not.

All I know is they run a lot of mile races on the Aqueduct main and there have been plenty of super fast tracks there for G1 mile races over the years.

Horse ran incredible. Good enough for me.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Its about a blend of things, in varying degrees of importance.
After the 3rd race on Saturday, which was laughable when those two "noble steeds" went 7f in rocketship time, I told the guy I was talking to that the Cigar would go in 32 and change easily.
Thats why I didn't join in the unending praise about the horse based on his raw time in the race.
I think that was pretty rational.
I think his sheet number will be in line with his last two races, still great, but not representing anything more than what he had already shown us.
What did impress me more than anything were the "gears" he showed.
His tractability and being able to start and stop on command were very impressive. It showed us that he has a fine mind, and that in teh heat of battle he can run as fast as he does when he has things his own way.
I do think the setup he got was as perfect as one could ever hope for.
By that I mean the speed horse who had seemingly no shot to win going out and doing the dirty work on Silver Train and forcing him to rush up and engage in blistering fractions on the inside.
Figures are 1/2 the equation, how they ACCOMPLISH the figure is the other half.
Euro seems to waver back and forth on everything, and most of what he posts is to try and get reactions out of folks and its tiresome.
Folks who can't seem to form and post enough intelligent thoughts who therefore go to the ole "I'll try and get a reaction out of people" posts are low on my list of "must read posters".

I agree 100% on your assesment of the race. The gears were incredible. And they way he reacted when shown the whip indicates he is pretty smart like you said.

I do not post to get a reaction. I am too old for that. I post because of something I feel like saying. And I dont think I waver on anything. Sure, maybe I have changed my mind after someone points something out to me that I havent thought of. But if you can find something that I have wavered on then show me. Other than that, I post what I think and feel.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Weren't you the one just saying that we shouldn't care about times? Do you even think about what you write anymore?

You shouldnt soley look at times. Again, times are a component that are used in handicapping. To me, times, fractions, beyers, track surface etc etc all need to be used when handicapping. Only focusing on times or beyers without considereing anything else is foolish to me. When looking at a race, from an part-owner perpesctive all I care about is wins. From a handicapping point of view, I care about everything combined.