welfare vs wages

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Just another glaring example of this self-righteous, self-entitlement culture.

"He has more than I have, it's not fair that he isn't giving me more of his"

"He" has an obligation to do exactly jacksh1t for you (colloquially speaking, not you personally Zig).

He offered you a job and you agreed to take it for the specified, mutually agreed upon hourly wage.

That is the beginning and the end of that relationship. "He" is not responsible for your 2 babies out of wedlock, your child support, your happiness, your living arrangements, your transportation, etc.

"He" is responsible for running a business. "You" have every right to embrace that business and work as hard as you can to impress your bosses and ultimately get promoted to earn more money, if that is your choice. "You" have every right to tell him to shove his job up his asz and go work for someone else, or even yourself.

Minimum wage jobs should be scaled based on a lowest common denominator, ie. "How cheaply can I fill this job for?", rather than being strong armed by some self-entitled do-nothing that wants a ridiculous wage for providing precious little in return.

i didn't comment on the salary in regards to whether it's fair what he makes.

my point is, it's rather disingenuous to say you can't afford to pay your workers more, when one can see what you pay your execs.
as for the 'precious little' in return... who greets the mcdonalds customer? takes the order, the money, counts the change, is responsible for being pleasant? who cooks the order? who puts it in the bags? who gives it to the customer? who cleans the store? stocks it? who makes the orders for supplies? who does all the day to day running and has contact with every single customer?
not the ceo. nope, the most important job in mcdonalds is the job held by the people interacting with the actual customers. if it's a good, and pleasant experience, they come back.
no customers, no business.


of course, it's rather easy to just dismiss these people, when one has decided they have no value, no education, have kids out of wedlock and are generally losers anyway.

and by the way, i've worked in some of those jobs over the years, and the experiences gained got me to where i am now. that, and a willingness to do my best, and i have a great overall work ethic. i see people from every walk of life in my current career. from those who live in a huge home and drive fancy cars, to someone who lives in a small apartment and has no car because he can't afford it. i think dealing with a wide range of people has made me more aware over the years that it's really just not as easy as some people seem to think it is to not just live, but succeed and improve your lot in life.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i didn't comment on the salary in regards to whether it's fair what he makes.

my point is, it's rather disingenuous to say you can't afford to pay your workers more, when one can see what you pay your execs.
as for the 'precious little' in return... who greets the mcdonalds customer? takes the order, the money, counts the change, is responsible for being pleasant? who cooks the order? who puts it in the bags? who gives it to the customer? who cleans the store? stocks it? who makes the orders for supplies? who does all the day to day running and has contact with every single customer?
not the ceo. nope, the most important job in mcdonalds is the job held by the people interacting with the actual customers. if it's a good, and pleasant experience, they come back.
no customers, no business.


of course, it's rather easy to just dismiss these people, when one has decided they have no value, no education, have kids out of wedlock and are generally losers anyway.

and by the way, i've worked in some of those jobs over the years, and the experiences gained got me to where i am now. that, and a willingness to do my best, and i have a great overall work ethic. i see people from every walk of life in my current career. from those who live in a huge home and drive fancy cars, to someone who lives in a small apartment and has no car because he can't afford it. i think dealing with a wide range of people has made me more aware over the years that it's really just not as easy as some people seem to think it is to not just live, but succeed and improve your lot in life.

I don't recall where anyone intimated that they "can't afford to pay their workers more", rather they "don't now, and shouldn't have to."

But this constant drum beat that corporations need to cut their profits in order to give that money away is insanity and verging on the edge of Communism, frankly.

If someone doesn't like working for 7.25 an hour, then they need to go & do something that pays better. If your life's calling is running the deep fat fryer at McD's, then move to where Dell ate lunch the other day - apparently there is a demand for you there as they are advertising 11-13.00 an hour.

That simple, really.


Secondly, your personal experience exactly proves the point. These are stepping stones to greater goals, not life-long careers. You gain a great deal of knowledge, interpersonal relationships, business management exposure, etc. which are all relatable skills further down the line. These are not a careers and one should not be encouraged to feel as though they are.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

I don't recall where anyone intimated that they "can't afford to pay their workers more", rather they "don't now, and shouldn't have to."

But this constant drum beat that corporations need to cut their profits in order to give that money away is insanity and verging on the edge of Communism, frankly.

If someone doesn't like working for 7.25 an hour, then they need to go & do something that pays better. If your life's calling is running the deep fat fryer at McD's, then move to where Dell ate lunch the other day - apparently there is a demand for you there as they are advertising 11-13.00 an hour.

That simple, really.


Secondly, your personal experience exactly proves the point. These are stepping stones to greater goals, not life-long careers. You gain a great deal of knowledge, interpersonal relationships, business management exposure, etc. which are all relatable skills further down the line. These are not a careers and one should not be encouraged to feel as though they are.

edited for brevity.


so, you just want to keep the status quo, low pay and taxpayers fill in the gaps?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

edited for brevity.


so, you just want to keep the status quo, low pay and taxpayers fill in the gaps?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/low...omy-2013-12-06

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/low...omy-2013-12-06

yep, i know.

i just want people to give ideas, saying 'that won't work' isn't the end of the discussion.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by jms62

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/low...omy-2013-12-06

2 different issues entirely. Lower wages vs. raising the minimum wage. Welcome to the global economy where engineers in Bangalore, India are happy to do your job for 40% of what you are being paid. I don't have a clue what the answer to this is, short of absolute Protectionism.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

2 different issues entirely. Lower wages vs. raising the minimum wage. Welcome to the global economy where engineers in Bangalore, India are happy to do your job for 40% of what you are being paid. I don't have a clue what the answer to this is, short of absolute Protectionism.

You come across as highly intelligent to me. Do you see that if we continue on this path Deflation is the only logical outcome?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by jms62

You come across as highly intelligent to me. Do you see that if we continue on this path Deflation is the only logical outcome?

You don't know him very well.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

edited for brevity.


so, you just want to keep the status quo, low pay and taxpayers fill in the gaps?

Don't forget who the taxpayers 'really' are.

The bottom 50% account for under 3% of all personal income tax collected while the top quarter pays over 87%.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Danzig

edited for brevity.


so, you just want to keep the status quo, low pay and taxpayers fill in the gaps?

No, I want to pay 11.50 for a Big Mac so that the burger flipper can meet with his accountant to manage his 401K.

Funny how you are going to pay others irresponsibility either way, it just incenses some that they are paying for it on the back end (taxes). Of course that is until they get their 15.00 an hour raise and you pay for it daily in groceries, clothing, restaurants, etc.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

No, I want to pay 11.50 for a Big Mac so that the burger flipper can meet with his accountant to manage his 401K.

Funny how you are going to pay others irresponsibility either way, it just incenses some that they are paying for it on the back end (taxes). Of course that is until they get their 15.00 an hour raise and you pay for it daily in groceries, clothing, restaurants, etc.

i was asking for a genuine answer. not hyperbole regarding the price of a big mac and sarcasm about 401k's. and again, the conversation I was involved in had to do with minimum wage being around $10 an hour, which is where it should be according to economists who track those things. had it increased as it did in the past (and during past economic crises at that) it would be around 10. not 15.

so, how do we put an end to subsidizing millions of workers thru taxes?

[Rudeboyelvis]

By giving them govt jobs I guess. Of course they are paid for with.... taxes....so...

41% of the Net New Jobs in November were in Government:

>>> Federal, state and local governments hired a net additional 338,000 workers in November, equaling 41 percent of the total of 818,000 net additional jobs created in the United States during the month.

At the same time, the unemployment rate for government workers fell from 4.4 percent in October to 3.2 percent in November. (The overall national unemployment rate fell from 7.3 percent to 7.0 percent.)<<<

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/...ere-government

[Danzig]

great idea, rudeboy. so glad we had this conversation, it's been very enlightening.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

By giving them govt jobs I guess. Of course they are paid for with.... taxes....so...

41% of the Net New Jobs in November were in Government:

>>> Federal, state and local governments hired a net additional 338,000 workers in November, equaling 41 percent of the total of 818,000 net additional jobs created in the United States during the month.

At the same time, the unemployment rate for government workers fell from 4.4 percent in October to 3.2 percent in November. (The overall national unemployment rate fell from 7.3 percent to 7.0 percent.)<<<

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/...ere-government

Why don't we lower the retirement age to 50. That will free up a ton of jobs.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so, how do we put an end to subsidizing millions of workers thru taxes?

Getting them thru High School would be a start. Last year Chicago Public High Schools celebrated a record graduation rate at 65.4%. That means 34.6% failed and will now go thru life as a high school dropout and likely needy, whether they be working or not. Sadly the graduation rate for African American males is 44%. More than half don't graduate.

Ultimately I think setting up McD's CEO Donald Thompson as a role model would be much more serving to the community rather than say Chief Kieff, an 18-year old rapper-gangbanger currently in rehab avoiding more jail time. Yet you'll never hear that from the imposters posing as community saviors, Jesse Jackson Sr. being one of the most obvious.