Most Impressive in Defeat?

[blackthroatedwind]

Did Pat really write " The boys of Ballydoyle " in this thread?

Excuse me while I barf.

[tywizard]

I'm not suggesting this be the way to answer the question but...according to Trakus, what horse covered the most ground relative to margin of defeat?

Will Take Charge was very wide and still game down the stretch.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by tywizard

I'm not suggesting this be the way to answer the question but...according to Trakus, what horse covered the most ground relative to margin of defeat?

Will Take Charge was very wide and still game down the stretch.

You of course are assuming 2 things.
1. Wider paths weren't possibly better path during either of the 2 days
2. Against the clock, all races were equal, i.e. a horse that loses a ton of ground in a dreadfully slow race didn't necessarily put in the most impressive performance in defeat.

[tywizard]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You of course are assuming 2 things.
1. Wider paths weren't possibly better path during either of the 2 days
2. Against the clock, all races were equal, i.e. a horse that loses a ton of ground in a dreadfully slow race didn't necessarily put in the most impressive performance in defeat.

I'm not assuming anything. In watching the race the horse was wide in the turn (5-6 path) and lost by mere inches.

I wasn't commenting on the speed of the race or figures....Just watching the race one can't help but wonder if he would have been able to nail MMM if he had only be three wide.

I think I get your point but you're attacking an argument I never really made.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by tywizard

I'm not assuming anything. In watching the race the horse was wide in the turn (5-6 path) and lost by mere inches.

I wasn't commenting on the speed of the race or figures....Just watching the race one can't help but wonder if he would have been able to nail MMM if he had only be three wide.

I think I get your point but you're attacking an argument I never really made.

Trakus is very useful. I was simply pointing out the ways it can be misinterpreted. You made no argument, I wasn't being critical.

[tywizard]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Trakus is very useful. I was simply pointing out the ways it can be misinterpreted. You made no argument, I wasn't being critical.

Thanks...Sorry I misread your comments.

Funny thing about this board and the game we enjoy is that the entire thing is based on opinions and then we're all a little defensive with the slightest challenge....

Carry on...

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by tywizard

Thanks...Sorry I misread your comments.

Funny thing about this board and the game we enjoy is that the entire thing is based on opinions and then we're all a little defensive with the slightest challenge....

Carry on...

Lovers of horse racing tend to be opinionated...it is what it is. What we lack in social graces we make up for in honesty.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You of course are assuming 2 things.
1. Wider paths weren't possibly better path during either of the 2 days
2. Against the clock, all races were equal, i.e. a horse that loses a ton of ground in a dreadfully slow race didn't necessarily put in the most impressive performance in defeat.

wider path might be 'better' but it's also longer.

[NTamm1215]

Strong Mandate was pretty damn good in defeat.

[South Beach Luv]

Judy the Beauty ran well considering Luis Saez was never on her before. I wonder if JV would have made the difference. I hope she comes back next year.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Strong Mandate was pretty damn good in defeat.

Any guess on what happened in the Champagne?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Any guess on what happened in the Champagne?

Horrible ride.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Did Pat really write " The boys of Ballydoyle " in this thread?

Excuse me while I barf.

there ya go, first name only again.....

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Did Pat really write " The boys of Ballydoyle " in this thread?

Excuse me while I barf.

The crew from Coolmore? Better?

[Calzone Lord]

The correct answer of which horse ran the best race in defeat? The Fugue

I don't know about "impressive" though, because she was expected to run very well.

The Turf Sprint was an absolutely terrible race. 13th (and last) place beaten just 6 lengths. 10th place beaten just 4 lengths. The final time was almost as slow as a 2yo race over the same course earlier in the day.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

The correct answer of which horse ran the best race in defeat? The Fugue

I don't know about "impressive" though, because she was expected to run very well.

The Turf Sprint was an absolutely terrible race. 13th (and last) place beaten just 6 lengths. 10th place beaten just 4 lengths. The final time was almost as slow as a 2yo race over the same course earlier in the day.

The Fugue ran very well. I also wonder if Romantico could have won if she had received Lasix.

Those were very tough races to do, and it is really hard to imagine the field was that bad. I know Beyer commented he didn't trust the times. I don't think there is a problem with them to be honest, but that race is a tough call any way you cut it.

[PatCummings]

Isolate Will Take Charge on video and watch it again...

Saez pushes him along on the first turn, to keep Palace Malice from coming over on him, then has to ease him back to avoid heels in front. He then looks completely all-in about a third of the way around the far turn, where it seems impossible for him to come on and get a slice. Saez keeps him going, angles out to the widest point only in the last third of the far turn, and just never gives up on him. Remarkable run for a horse making his 13th start in 12.5 months.

I wasn't arguing before that any one horses was more impressive than another in defeat, because well, you really just can't pick one. In the Classic itself, while they don't pay it that way, I felt like three horses won.

[cmorioles]

Pat will like this one...just did some rough work ... thinking of writing an article on it for TimeformUS. In the Juvenile, I these were the pace figures I have for the 3/4 mile and the finish for the top 3, 0-100 scale:

Havana		82    72
Strong Mandate	84    71
New Year's Day	76    73

But when you add in ground loss, they look like this:

Havana		91	81
Strong Mandate	93	79
New Year's Day	81	79

Pretty tough to argue the winner was anything better than 3rd best (not that you needed numbers to see that, but this will be part of the future)

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Pat will like this one...just did some rough work ... thinking of writing an article on it for TimeformUS. In the Juvenile, I these were the pace figures I have for the 3/4 mile and the finish for the top 3, 0-100 scale:

Havana		82    72
Strong Mandate	84    71
New Year's Day	76    73

But when you add in ground loss, they look like this:

Havana		91	81
Strong Mandate	93	79
New Year's Day	81	79

Pretty tough to argue the winner was anything better than 3rd best (not that you needed numbers to see that, but this will be part of the future)

Good stuff. Tap It Rich lost the most ground in the field too, be interested to see where he fits in. That horse just doesn't seem like he has a real penchant for cornering.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Good stuff. Tap It Rich lost the most ground in the field too, be interested to see where he fits in. That horse just doesn't seem like he has a real penchant for cornering.

I'll check him out tomorrow and post.