FRIDAY 11/1 (SA): 30th Breeders' Cup

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

Nor does she deserve it. She's an incredible talent, but there are a lot of days that count during the year. Not just Novemeber 1st.

While she was in the barn, Princess of Sylmar was winning stakes on all of the other days that count.

Not so sure I agree with this. Sylmar ran 1 more time then Beholder this year, so the 'in the barn' comment is a little off.

Look, Beholder won all the non turf G1 straight 3 year old races in California and Sylmar won the G1s on the East.

IMO, I think a BC Distaff win outweighs a KY Oaks win, thus my vote would go for Beholder

I also feel that if the track was bias towards closers yesterday, Beholder still would have won.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Scav

Not so sure I agree with this. Sylmar ran 1 more time then Beholder this year, so the 'in the barn' comment is a little off.

Look, Beholder won all the non turf G1 straight 3 year old races in California and Sylmar won the G1s on the East.

IMO, I think a BC Distaff win outweighs a KY Oaks win, thus my vote would go for Beholder

I also feel that if the track was bias towards closers yesterday, Beholder still would have won.

She was in the barn for 4 months while the 3 year old filly season was in full gear, was she not? The CCA Oaks and Alabama are more important races in terms of deciding a division title than the Las Virgenes and SA Oaks.

Maybe Beholder would have still won, I was against Princess of Sylmar yesterday because they weren't really aiming for that race. It was almost an afterthought, whereas Beholder had seemingly been aiming at it since May.

I just think it would be a (nother) bad precedent to award a horse an award for one day, while ignoring that she is 1-1 heads up against the horse who had a huge lead based on accomplishments going into the race.

The real Princess of Sylmar didn't show up yesterday. That isn't Beholder's fault, but I can't imagine any sane person thinks that beholder is 16 lengths better than Princess of Sylmar.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

She was in the barn for 4 months while the 3 year old filly season was in full gear, was she not? The CCA Oaks and Alabama are more important races in terms of deciding a division title than the Las Virgenes and SA Oaks.

Maybe Beholder would have still won, I was against Princess of Sylmar yesterday because they weren't really aiming for that race. It was almost an afterthought, whereas Beholder had seemingly been aiming at it since May.

I just think it would be a (nother) bad precedent to award a horse an award for one day, while ignoring that she is 1-1 heads up against the horse who had a huge lead based on accomplishments going into the race.

The real Princess of Sylmar didn't show up yesterday. That isn't Beholder's fault, but I can't imagine any sane person thinks that beholder is 16 lengths better than Princess of Sylmar.

I don't disagree about the 1 day opinion but I do disagree about her 'being in the barn'. She is a California based horse for a trainer that rarely ships, and ran all the races in her backyard, like Sylmar did.

And I don't disagree about yesterday being a toss out for Sylmar based on the exact thing you said in terms of them not pointing to the race and to a lesser extent the track.

I don't have an opinion on who would win, but if I was voting, I would vote for Beholder.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Scav

I don't disagree about the 1 day opinion but I do disagree about her 'being in the barn'. She is a California based horse for a trainer that rarely ships, and ran all the races in her backyard, like Sylmar did.

And I don't disagree about yesterday being a toss out for Sylmar based on the exact thing you said in terms of them not pointing to the race and to a lesser extent the track.

I don't have an opinion on who would win, but if I was voting, I would vote for Beholder.

There are no races for 3 year old fillies in the West from May-September?

My overall point is that if Beholder wins the eclipse essentially Ed Stanco will be getting penalized for a sporting gesture running her, as she was the clear leader before the Distaff.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

There are no races for 3 year old fillies in the West from May-September?

My overall point is that if Beholder wins the eclipse essentially Ed Stanco will be getting penalized for a sporting gesture running her, as she was the clear leader before the Distaff.

It would be June cause she ran in May in KY. And the only straight 3 non turf race is the Torrey Pines, which she won at Del Mar.

If Sylmar doesn't run in the race, and Beholder still does what she did, then I still think Beholder wins the 3 year old title.

Actually, if you think about it, maybe Sylmar running that bad on such a 'talked about' track will help her get more votes because people will be excusing it.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Scav

It would be June cause she ran in May in KY. And the only straight 3 non turf race is the Torrey Pines, which she won at Del Mar.

If Sylmar doesn't run in the race, and Beholder still does what she did, then I still think Beholder wins the 3 year old title.

Actually, if you think about it, maybe Sylmar running that bad on such a 'talked about' track will help her get more votes because people will be excusing it.

The Hollywood Oaks is straight 3 year olds and run in June.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

The Hollywood Oaks is straight 3 year olds and run in June.

You are correct. So they missed a race, I can say the same thing about Sylmar missing a race like the Black Eyed Susan, or the Mother Goose. Wouldn't you agree that a race like the KY Oaks takes alot of out of horses. Stanco pointed for the Saratoga races, where Beholder's people pointed towards the Fall.

I get it, your fan of Princess of Sylmar, I am too, I think both are very good horses, and I'm sure you agree with that.

We can agree to disagree about who will win the Eclipse and we'll see when the voting comes out.