The Great Derby Paradox

[Alabama Stakes]

[QUOTE


I think that racing made huge mistakes in the late 80's/early 90's when simulcasting took off. What full card simulcasting did was take racing from a regional sport to a national sport and the truth is that the game never really learned how to adjust.[/quote]


keen insight. it was rude awakening for those of us who dominated the local scene, and then started betting the big tracks, The competition is much tougher. when you're betting the local product mook money is all over the place. when you start competing against the likes of Mr. Byk and some of you guys, you get beat up. You become the mook money. It's a tough pill to swallow. Betting the local product is still profitable, but you have to be there, and it's tough to go everyday when you're the youngest guy in the track. I always want to be the oldest guy wherever I am. I miss going. Thank God for Saratoga.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

keen insight. it was rude awakening for those of us who dominated the local scene, and then started betting the big tracks, The competition is much tougher. when you're betting the local product mook money is all over the place. when you start competing against the likes of Mr. Byk and some of you guys, you get beat up. You become the mook money. It's a tough pill to swallow. Betting the local product is still profitable, but you have to be there, and it's tough to go everyday when you're the youngest guy in the track. I always want to be the oldest guy wherever I am. I miss going. Thank God for Saratoga.

Thanks.. I laughed coffee through my nose and am hurting right now

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by jms62

Thanks.. I laughed coffee through my nose and am hurting right now

I'm glad I've finished mine. Mike Welsch was the king at suffolk, well actually The Fox. Then he went to Calder to be DRF's man there. J Stone hit a big pick 6 and left. That left the disciples of JJ Kelly. We kicked ass for years, believe it or not. When simulcasting came, we were basically betting against a bunch of people sitting around Beulah park or Thisledown who look up at the TV and see 3 minutes to post at Suffolkand bet. If you are at the track on the rail everyday, for every race, you are supposed to know more than people just betting on TV. It was great while it lasted....then came the dime super, and it was over.
Betting against the best will make one crazy and broke. Kind of where I am after the bloodbath over the weekend. Sane and fat knot of dough was way better. Stay on the good foot !

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by jms62

Thanks.. I laughed coffee through my nose and am hurting right now

what andy wrote is spot on..imo

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

[QUOTE


I think that racing made huge mistakes in the late 80's/early 90's when simulcasting took off. What full card simulcasting did was take racing from a regional sport to a national sport and the truth is that the game never really learned how to adjust.

keen insight. it was rude awakening for those of us who dominated the local scene, and then started betting the big tracks, The competition is much tougher. when you're betting the local product mook money is all over the place. when you start competing against the likes of Mr. Byk and some of you guys, you get beat up. You become the mook money. It's a tough pill to swallow. Betting the local product is still profitable, but you have to be there, and it's tough to go everyday when you're the youngest guy in the track. I always want to be the oldest guy wherever I am. I miss going. Thank God for Saratoga.[/quote]

Started long before that. Off Track Betting was one of the key starting points, especially in New York.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Revidere

[/b]

keen insight. it was rude awakening for those of us who dominated the local scene, and then started betting the big tracks, The competition is much tougher. when you're betting the local product mook money is all over the place. when you start competing against the likes of Mr. Byk and some of you guys, you get beat up. You become the mook money. It's a tough pill to swallow. Betting the local product is still profitable, but you have to be there, and it's tough to go everyday when you're the youngest guy in the track. I always want to be the oldest guy wherever I am. I miss going. Thank God for Saratoga.

Started long before that. Off Track Betting was one of the key starting points, especially in New York.[/quote]

i agree, i think opening otb's was a good intention, but it's been a bad thing for tracks. i'm one of those who bets when i go to the track, seldom bet away from it, and have never been to an otb. and when i'm at a track, typically don't fool with other tracks-i limit my bets the vast majority of the time to the live card.
but, so many go to otb's instead of the track, which is why everyone sees the daily attendance and says racing is 'dying'. and the tracks don't benefit from the betting, because they have to share with otb's and others. plenty of money from bettors, but it's not all going to the facility who is providing the product and putting out the purse monies and other expenses.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

Started long before that. Off Track Betting was one of the key starting points, especially in New York.

i agree, i think opening otb's was a good intention, but it's been a bad thing for tracks. i'm one of those who bets when i go to the track, seldom bet away from it, and have never been to an otb. and when i'm at a track, typically don't fool with other tracks-i limit my bets the vast majority of the time to the live card.
but, so many go to otb's instead of the track, which is why everyone sees the daily attendance and says racing is 'dying'. and the tracks don't benefit from the betting, because they have to share with otb's and others. plenty of money from bettors, but it's not all going to the facility who is providing the product and putting out the purse monies and other expenses.[/quote]

I dont think the concept of OTB's is bad. Obviously the set up in NY was terrible but allowing people to bet without being physically present is not bad.

Allowing 3rd parties to come into the equation and basically leech off of the business wasn't a brilliant move.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Revidere

[/b]

Started long before that. Off Track Betting was one of the key starting points, especially in New York.[/quote]

Not nationally it didn't. Off track betting was pretty much restricted to NY in those days

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Started long before that. Off Track Betting was one of the key starting points, especially in New York.

Not nationally it didn't. Off track betting was pretty much restricted to NY in those days[/quote]

I didn't say nationally, but you could make a case that in the 70's New York was the racing capital, and whatever reason they could not work together, the result (along with other factors) effectively chopped down racing's largest tree.