One more reason why the Phipps family is good for racing

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I just find the argument that its bad for the breed for the stallion to be "artificially enhanced" while the mare, who is 1/2 of the equation, can be a complete slowpoke silly.

but if a mare doesnt' have to succeed on the track before going to the shed, you're getting an all natural broodmare.
but an enhanced stud...well, how fast would he have been without help? would he have bled? was he on steroids? studs have to prove themselves on the track pretty much. otherwise, you have to support him all on your own, as no one will have heard of him. so they have to go out on the track and give it all they've got--or all the vet has!

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

but if a mare doesnt' have to succeed on the track before going to the shed, you're getting an all natural broodmare.
but an enhanced stud...well, how fast would he have been without help? would he have bled? was he on steroids? studs have to prove themselves on the track pretty much. otherwise, you have to support him all on your own, as no one will have heard of him. so they have to go out on the track and give it all they've got--or all the vet has!

plus a mare won't have 100+ foals per year...if she su cks she'll weed herself out of the herd after a couple of foals...if the stud su cks well then there are that many more surpluss foals...
And IMHO I think the fact that a lot of super running mares can't come close to reproducing themselves shows you which mares had some extra vet help.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

plus a mare won't have 100+ foals per year...if she su cks she'll weed herself out of the herd after a couple of foals...if the stud su cks well then there are that many more surpluss foals...
And IMHO I think the fact that a lot of super running mares can't come close to reproducing themselves shows you which mares had some extra vet help.

I think that it would be presumptious to say that a mare who was a top class runner that was not a good producer had extra vet help. Same with stallions. Look at a horse like Lemon Drop Kid. Top class horse who seemingly was not trained by a "move up" trainer but seems hard pressed to replicate himself as a stallion. Was he enhanced as a runner? I think not. He seems to be passing on traits from his sire, Kingmambo, namely turfy types. Same with Skip Away. It has nothing to do with drugs it is genetics which are always much clearer 30 years down the road in hindsight.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think that it would be presumptious to say that a mare who was a top class runner that was not a good producer had extra vet help. Same with stallions. Look at a horse like Lemon Drop Kid. Top class horse who seemingly was not trained by a "move up" trainer but seems hard pressed to replicate himself as a stallion. Was he enhanced as a runner? I think not. He seems to be passing on traits from his sire, Kingmambo, namely turfy types. Same with Skip Away. It has nothing to do with drugs it is genetics which are always much clearer 30 years down the road in hindsight.

perhaps i should have said might have had help...and I think in some cases it is true...but as i said it's just my opinion. And I think Skip Away's opportunity as a stallion has suffered from his lack of fashionable pedigree.
genetics are obviously the determining factor and for to understand how genes express themselves it takes generations of a population...however it is that much harder to make a determination when runners are enhanced.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

plus a mare won't have 100+ foals per year.

I would hardly think the 50 or so mares that a bad ass stallion will produce a year will negatively affect a horse population of roughly 125,000?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I would hardly think the 50 or so mares that a bad ass stallion will produce a year will negatively affect a horse population of roughly 125,000?

my point was simply that a single mare will have far less impact overall than a stud can potentially.

[Rileyoriley]

Devil His Due raced 40 times drug free and I think More Than Ready is turning out to be a decent sire. Personally I like the Halo line but I know it isn't real popular with breeders. Deb

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

Devil His Due raced 40 times drug free and I think More Than Ready is turning out to be a decent sire. Personally I like the Halo line but I know it isn't real popular with breeders. Deb

describe drug free

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

You can't.............

http://www.stallionregister.com/sr_s...n=singlesearch

maybe not, but maybe bloodhorse can explain. not the first time i've seen him said to be drug free...but i think it referred to no lasix.

[repent]

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

Devil His Due raced 40 times drug free and I think More Than Ready is turning out to be a decent sire. Personally I like the Halo line but I know it isn't real popular with breeders. Deb

yeah,
which is why SSilence is in Japan I guess.
yeah, we sure didnt need any of that blood in this country.
how unfortunate.


Repent

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by repent

yeah,
which is why SSilence is in Japan I guess.
yeah, we sure didnt need any of that blood in this country.
how unfortunate.


Repent

i'm not sure sunday silence would have had the same impact here as he did in japan. became a legend, and that suits me fine.