Ron Ellis claims East Coast Bias

[blackthroatedwind]

What an absolutely ridiculous thing to claim. Include Me Out is a nice horse. However, she is beating absolutely nothing, and not exactly going very fast in doing it, plus she is suspect at the 1 1/8 miles of the Distaff. Amani is a FAR more dangerous West Coast horse heading to the BC.

The " East Coast bias " thing is a paranoid delusion. Is there an East Coast bias when people consider Game On Dude the top Handicap horse in the Country, or is it suspended in his case? How about I'll Have Another? Bodemeister?

It's nothing but a numbers game.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What an absolutely ridiculous thing to claim. Include Me Out is a nice horse. However, she is beating absolutely nothing, and not exactly going very fast in doing it, plus she is suspect at the 1 1/8 miles of the Distaff. Amani is a FAR more dangerous West Coast horse heading to the BC.

The " East Coast bias " thing is a paranoid delusion. Is there an East Coast bias when people consider Game On Dude the top Handicap horse in the Country, or is it suspended in his case? How about I'll Have Another? Bodemeister?

It's nothing but a numbers game.

In the 80s and early 90s, there most certainly was an East Coast bias, especially with year end awards.

Clearly this does not exist anymore however.

I still cannot understand Vanlandingham winning the Eclipse.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What an absolutely ridiculous thing to claim. Include Me Out is a nice horse. However, she is beating absolutely nothing, and not exactly going very fast in doing it, plus she is suspect at the 1 1/8 miles of the Distaff. Amani is a FAR more dangerous West Coast horse heading to the BC.

The " East Coast bias " thing is a paranoid delusion. Is there an East Coast bias when people consider Game On Dude the top Handicap horse in the Country, or is it suspended in his case? How about I'll Have Another? Bodemeister?

It's nothing but a numbers game.

I agree in general -- but I think Ellis picked an especially dopey situation to whine about it.

[Calzone Lord]

The "usually when they hook our California horses, reality sets in" line doesn't exactly prove true.

The last four horses to really establish themselves as clear-cut leaders of the handicap division in Southern California have been Lava Man, Rail Trip, Richard's Kid, and Game on Dude.


Game On Dude didn't run in California until about his 7th start. He came up at Gulfstream Park before Baffert went and got him.





Richard's Kid was a Maryland horse. Ran a bunch of races in the Mid-Atlantic before Baffert went and got him.

Rail Trip was a horse who came up in Southern California -- but he didn't do so hot when he came East.

Lava Man was a horse who came up in Northern California ... and was another one who improved under a fine So. Cal trainer.


Zenyatta is the only California based horse to win the Breeders Cup Classic since 2003 -- and she did it on Pro-Ride.

The last 6 times the Breeders Cup Distaff/Ladies Classic has been run on dirt -- no West Coast horse has won it.

No West Coast horse has won the Breeders Cup Mile since 2004.

There's only been one West Coast based winner of the Breeders Cup Turf since 1994 ... and that was Johar who dead-heated for a share of the win.

The way Ellis described it -- you'd think the California based horses win these races every single year.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

The "usually when they hook our California horses, reality sets in" line doesn't exactly prove true.

The last four horses to really establish themselves as clear-cut leaders of the handicap division in Southern California have been Lava Man, Rail Trip, Richard's Kid, and Game on Dude.


Game On Dude didn't run in California until about his 7th start. He came up at Gulfstream Park before Baffert went and got him.




Richard's Kid was a Maryland horse. Ran a bunch of races in the Mid-Atlantic before Baffert went and got him.

Rail Trip was a horse who came up in Southern California -- but he didn't do so hot when he came East.

Lava Man was a horse who came up in Northern California ... and was another one who improved under a fine So. Cal trainer.


Zenyatta is the only California based horse to win the Breeders Cup Classic since 2003 -- and she did it on Pro-Ride.

The last 6 times the Breeders Cup Distaff/Ladies Classic has been run on dirt -- no West Coast horse has won it.

No West Coast horse has won the Breeders Cup Mile since 2004.

There's only been one West Coast based winner of the Breeders Cup Turf since 1994 ... and that was Johar who dead-heated for a share of the win.

The way Ellis described it -- you'd think the California based horses win these races every single year.

Yeah, California supremacy is long dead.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yeah, California supremacy is long dead.

That implies that there was a supremacy, which has never been the case.

I would say the sprinter thread brings up a decent example of a true east coast bias, if you won the Vosburgh, pre BC, you were basically the sprint champion despite your other accomplishments. Since many Cal horses were not in that race they had very few sprint champions pre BC, since the BC was instituted the Sprint division is arguably their strongest area, did they suddenly get good and produce more champions, unlikely, they were never really considered.

[EJXD2]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Include Me Out is one Jay Hovdey -- who I suspect will take up the mantle for her now -- piece away from getting respect.

Well, while we wait for Jay, here's my paean to Include Me Out, who I absolutely feel is not getting the respect she deserves as a multiple Grade 1 and four-time graded stakes winner this year.

http://blog.twinspires.com/2012/09/i...-left-out.html

[pointman]

I don't get the whole east coast, west coast bias thing. Who cares where a horse is based? I play horses anywhere they run and play plenty of California racing even though I am a New Yorker. The place to settle it is on the racetrack. Seems to me the majority of the time I hear this claim it appears to be more a west coast inferiority complex than an east coast bias.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by EJXD2

Well, while we wait for Jay, here's my paean to Include Me Out, who I absolutely feel is not getting the respect she deserves as a multiple Grade 1 and four-time graded stakes winner this year.

http://blog.twinspires.com/2012/09/i...-left-out.html

include me out is a victim?! please.

he wants her to get respect, let her win the distaff. she'll get it.
hell, alpha gets 'dissed' because of his record outside ny-is that a bias too? no, his record is pretty clear in that regard.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Danzig

include me out is a victim?! please.

People don't really care that much about year-end awards right now because the way horses are being campaigned, they are almost never decided this early in any division save the glamor 3yo male division.

Basically -- he's saying Include Me Out is being "victimized" and "disrespected" by other people (not him!) and, oh yeah, he likes Amani to beat her in the Zenyatta and either Amani and Royal Delta for the BC Distaff.

Royal Delta obviously has more of a following, she's won an Eclipse Award, she's won a Breeders Cup Distaff, and earlier this year, she became only the 842nd horse since Congaree to run an all-time record Thoro-Graph figure.

Awesome Feather has more of a following, she's a perfect 10-for-10 lifetime and she's also won an Eclipse Award.

My Miss Aurelia has a following, she's also an undefeated champion.

Questing has a following, she very impressively won two Grade 1's at Saratoga and was pretty much the star of the meet this year.

Include Me Out is not a victim of any bias... and if she is the deserving leader of the vote for her older female division right now, only about 28% of the precincts have reported.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

People don't really care that much about year-end awards right now because the way horses are being campaigned, they are almost never decided this early in any division save the glamor 3yo male division.

Basically -- he's saying Include Me Out is being "victimized" and "disrespected" by other people (not him!) and, oh yeah, he likes Amani to beat her in the Zenyatta and either Amani and Royal Delta for the BC Distaff.

Royal Delta obviously has more of a following, she's won an Eclipse Award, she's won a Breeders Cup Distaff, and earlier this year, she became only the 842nd horse since Congaree to run an all-time record Thoro-Graph figure.

Awesome Feather has more of a following, she's a perfect 10-for-10 lifetime and she's also won an Eclipse Award.

My Miss Aurelia has a following, she's also an undefeated champion.

Questing has a following, she very impressively won two Grade 1's at Saratoga and was pretty much the star of the meet this year.

Include Me Out is not a victim of any bias... and if she is the deserving leader of the vote for her older female division right now, only about 28% of the precincts have reported.

right...which is why i don't get ellis' comments, or the guys article.

and i thought they were going to santa anita for the bc two years in a row to take advantage of all the fantabulous west coast marketing? but...they can't market one mare?
it just makes no sense. and the 'victim' label is almost as overused as the 'hero' label.

[skyfire]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

People don't really care that much about year-end awards right now because the way horses are being campaigned, they are almost never decided this early in any division save the glamor 3yo male division.

Basically -- he's saying Include Me Out is being "victimized" and "disrespected" by other people (not him!) and, oh yeah, he likes Amani to beat her in the Zenyatta and either Amani and Royal Delta for the BC Distaff.

Royal Delta obviously has more of a following, she's won an Eclipse Award, she's won a Breeders Cup Distaff, and earlier this year, she became only the 842nd horse since Congaree to run an all-time record Thoro-Graph figure.

Awesome Feather has more of a following, she's a perfect 10-for-10 lifetime and she's also won an Eclipse Award.

My Miss Aurelia has a following, she's also an undefeated champion.

Questing has a following, she very impressively won two Grade 1's at Saratoga and was pretty much the star of the meet this year.

Include Me Out is not a victim of any bias... and if she is the deserving leader of the vote for her older female division right now, only about 28% of the precincts have reported.

Exactly.

[Gate Dancer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The " East Coast bias " thing is a paranoid delusion. Is there an East Coast bias when people consider Game On Dude the top Handicap horse in the Country, or is it suspended in his case? How about I'll Have Another? Bodemeister?

It's nothing but a numbers game.

I too distinctly remember the majority of praise being heaped on the West coast 3 year olds during and following the Triple Crown season. I'm a little surprised that Mr. Ellis is so 'thin-skinned'..................

We'll see what 'reality' sets in on Nov 2nd and 3rd.............