Saturday Saratoga Race Card

[OTM Al]

Guess it's time then to shutter the place and bring in the wrecking ball. Then we can all go play Hoosier and bitch about it. Rule #5: no matter how good something is at least one horseplayer will complain about it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Guess it's time then to shutter the place and bring in the wrecking ball. Then we can all go play Hoosier and bitch about it. Rule #5: no matter how good something is at least one horseplayer will complain about it.

But the card isnt good, it is abnormally bad for a Saturday at Saratoga. More than 1/2 of the races are for a $20000 tag which happens to be the bottom price there. On a Monday or Wed? Whatever, they are filling 6 cards a week. But for a Saturday card why shouldn't people complain about it?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Guess it's time then to shutter the place and bring in the wrecking ball. Then we can all go play Hoosier and bitch about it. Rule #5: no matter how good something is at least one horseplayer will complain about it.

Is there some rule that you can't complain about a card that isn't up to the usual standards?

[Dahoss]

Of course people can complain and for Saratoga standards, the quality is subpar.

This is horse racing in 2012. There aren't enough good horses to fill cards like we did 10 years ago.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Of course people can complain and for Saratoga standards, the quality is subpar.

This is horse racing in 2012. There aren't enough good horses to fill cards like we did 10 years ago.

the voice of reason. sharp post.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Of course people can complain and for Saratoga standards, the quality is subpar.

This is horse racing in 2012. There aren't enough good horses to fill cards like we did 10 years ago.

I dont know this is entirely true. Just seems that so many are trained by so few. A majority of NY trainers dont have any what would be considered good horses and fill their stalls with NY breds and cheaper horses.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont know this is entirely true. Just seems that so many are trained by so few. A majority of NY trainers dont have any what would be considered good horses and fill their stalls with NY breds and cheaper horses.

This is a huge problem.

[Calzone Lord]

You can't do anything about the fact that the same five trainers get all the good stock, with one getting most of it.

I'd like to see more open cheap claiming races at Saratoga and a lot less of these stakes races with five and six horse fields.

I'd like to see more baby races with 10 and 12 horse fields where you can make a lot of money if you're right -- than a whole bunch with small fields.

From a betting standpoint, I would take a card loaded with competitive cheap class races and big field baby races ... over a card with a bunch of soft stakes races and 6 horse field baby races.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

You can't do anything about the fact that the same five trainers get all the good stock, with one getting most of it.

I'd like to see more open cheap claiming races at Saratoga and a lot less of these stakes races with five and six horse fields.

I'd like to see more baby races with 10 and 12 horse fields where you can make a lot of money if you're right -- than a whole bunch with small fields.

From a betting standpoint, I would take a card loaded with competitive cheap class races and big field baby races ... over a card with a bunch of soft stakes races and 6 horse field baby races.

Well you could stop giving them 150 free stalls.

The initial problem is that no one in a leadership position in racing seems to understand this is an issue. Funny that they always like to toss other sports analogies in regards to racing (usually in the wrong context but whatever) but seem to miss that competitive balance has been a war fought in every major sport since the begining of the free agency era. Salary caps, player drafts, luxury taxes, etc are all staples of other sports that work to attempt to achieve some sort of balance. Yet in this sport it is absolutely ignored and many of the moves made actually further the cause of the supertrainer and large barns to the detriment of just about everyone else. Unlimited stalls, the proliferation of overnight stakes races, the field size limit in 2 yo maiden races are all things that are absolute boons to the barns with all the talent providing more easy spots for their huge arsenal of horses, often creating poor betting races as well.

[Cannon Shell]

Open claiming races have been killed off by conditioned claimers at most tracks

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Open claiming races have been killed off by conditioned claimers at most tracks

There are five of them to kick off the Delmar card today. The racinos elsewhere have siphoned off all the claiming horses.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont know this is entirely true. Just seems that so many are trained by so few. A majority of NY trainers dont have any what would be considered good horses and fill their stalls with NY breds and cheaper horses.

It's a mixture of things and a few having so many doesn't help.

I get the complaint about the quality of the card. I just don't get the shock when it happens. As if this is the first year this is happening.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Of course people can complain and for Saratoga standards, the quality is subpar.

This is horse racing in 2012. There aren't enough good horses to fill cards like we did 10 years ago.

Exactly!

[Cannon Shell]

People love to use the previous years corresponding day as a measuring stick so we will do that here.

Last year's 4th Saturday of the meet had
Race 1 25000 long on turf
Race 2 MSW (NYB)
Race 3 Allowance
Race 4 Mdn 20000
Race 5 MSW turf
Race 6 MSW
Race 7 MSW
Race 8 Allowance/opt 50000
Race 9 Allowance
Race 10 Sword Dancer
Race 11 Mdn 20000

Saturday
Race 1 20000 nw2
Race 2 MSW turf
Race 3 20000 nw2
Race 4 MSW (NYB)
Race 5 Mdn 20000 (NYB)
Race 6 MSW
Race 7 20000 nw2 turf
Race 8 Mdn 20000
Race 9 20000 nw3
Race 10 Alw turf
Race 11 4stardave

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by jms62

Is there some rule that you can't complain about a card that isn't up to the usual standards?

The usual standards? Let me ask you this. If all the same horses were running but they called all four 20000 claimers AOCs instead, would there be such an outcry? Or what if instead they replaced them all with five and six horse NW2X and 3X races or some made up overnight stake, the Karakorum Crapbag, shall we call it? Would it be better then? Look at the full calendar. This is the "off" weekend caused by repositioning the major races for TV, which was supposed to be a good thing.

Yeah, it's not as strong as all the other weekends. I just don't get the crying. If you don't lke the card there's a lot of other tracks going that day. Frankly on first glance I didn't see too many I liked either and I'm going to be up there. Maybe I'll play one or two and then go drink beers and watch the ball game instead, but I'm not going to whine about it. So give us a list then of all the tracks that have a better card going that day. Already seen Del Mar doesn't, so I'm thinking that list is pretty short. Give it a couple days, it will be better, whatever that means.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Already seen Del Mar doesn't, so I'm thinking that list is pretty short. Give it a couple days, it will be better, whatever that means.

That is strictly opinion, right? I'll take the Delmar card on Saturday. What is so terrible about mentioning a card stinks? Nobody complains when it is posted that cards are great. I found it very, very disappointing for a Saturday in the middle of the meet. That is just my opinion.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

That is strictly opinion, right? I'll take the Delmar card on Saturday. What is so terrible about mentioning a card stinks? Nobody complains when it is posted that cards are great. I found it very, very disappointing for a Saturday in the middle of the meet. That is just my opinion.

When's the last time someone posted that a card was great on a non major event day? You know it's nothing special as well as I but I'm not going to act like someone just shot my dog. It's the worst Saturday card there this year. One of them had to be. And on the criteria that started the thread, the Del Mar card has one more allowance race and the rest is pretty much all the same, so it really isnt all that different.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

When's the last time someone posted that a card was great on a non major event day? You know it's nothing special as well as I but I'm not going to act like someone just shot my dog. It's the worst Saturday card there this year. One of them had to be. And on the criteria that started the thread, the Del Mar card has one more allowance race and the rest is pretty much all the same, so it really isnt all that different.

The the open claiming races though are pretty good betting events, just because its a claimer does not make it something a bad race. I actually would prefer a good claimer to a state bred mdn.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

When's the last time someone posted that a card was great on a non major event day? You know it's nothing special as well as I but I'm not going to act like someone just shot my dog. It's the worst Saturday card there this year. One of them had to be. And on the criteria that started the thread, the Del Mar card has one more allowance race and the rest is pretty much all the same, so it really isnt all that different.

Who is acting like there dog was shot? I don't see a single post like that in the thread. I guess you feel Saratoga was being slighted. Maybe the guy was planning a trip to Saratoga and not Delmar, I don't know. Should we talk about the Thistledown and Presque Isle cards in a thread about a Saratoga card too?

I defend NYRA more than 99% of the people that post on the internet, but I can call a stinker a stinker if I want to do so.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Who is acting like there dog was shot? I don't see a single post like that in the thread. I guess you feel Saratoga was being slighted. Maybe the guy was planning a trip to Saratoga and not Delmar, I don't know. Should we talk about the Thistledown and Presque Isle cards in a thread about a Saratoga card too?

I defend NYRA more than 99% of the people that post on the internet, but I can call a stinker a stinker if I want to do so.

Nope. Just sometimes the complaining gets tiring. We seem to be in an era where every event has to be the best ever or every athlete must be or they suck. The card isnt great. I just say "so what" and go on. Besides, what type of race have we all made or biggest hits on? For me it's maidens, so the card has some of that. Others love claimers. Those that like allowances and stakes are out of luck unfortunately. So it goes.