Lasix enhances performance

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

Lasix similar to effect of a milkshake? Ridiculous. Lasix has a minor adjustment to elevation of pH (we know that, because that has actually been measured multiple times) but nowhere near what a milkshake does (we know that, because it's been actually measured multiple times).

Interesting. 2 weeks ago you blasted me for suggesting that lasix affects the acid-base status of a horse. Now you're acting like you're the one bringing that information to the table. Pathetic.

Me, 2 weeks ago:

...lasix has other effects aside from reducing the severity of bleeding, namely causing a ~3% decrease in body weight (ie upwards to 30lbs) and changing the acid-base balance of the blood (ie the same principle behind "milkshaking" albeit at a less dramatic level).

Your response:

No, lasix does NOT change the acid-base balance of the blood. Anybody who knows how this loop diuretic works knows that. If that were true, every horse given lasix would have a TCO2 positive.

Ah...the intricate cross-thread backpedal. Yet another deadly tool in your sizeable weapons cache of cyber-terrorism.

Well done.

[Riot]

]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Interesting. 2 weeks ago you blasted me for suggesting that lasix affects the acid-base status of a horse. Now you're acting like you're the one bringing that information to the table. Pathetic.

Because, as has been previously mentioned, the affect on the acid-base balance of one injection of furosemide at a measured dose and time is immediately and successfully attenuated by the body's normal acid-base physiologic compensatory mechanisms, resulting in changes that have been repeatedly measured to be minor and unaffecting of performance.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

]

Because, as has been previously mentioned, the affect on the acid-base balance of one injection of furosemide at a measured dose and time is immediately and successfully attenuated by the body's normal acid-base physiologic compensatory mechanisms, resulting in changes that have been repeatedly measured to be minor and unaffecting of performance.

spin, spin, spin, spin, spin.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

spin, spin, spin, spin, spin.

Why don't you go off and try to find out why the measurable TCO2 level of a horse on lasix (be it standing in a stall, running on a treadmill, running in a race, or in an intensive care unit at an equine hospital with acid/base disturbances) is between certain very well-known and predictable values, and the TCO2 of horses that have received illegal milkshakes or other alkalynizing agents is something else entirely?

Maybe check the NYT opinion page.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

]

Because, as has been previously mentioned, the affect on the acid-base balance of one injection of furosemide at a measured dose and time is immediately and successfully attenuated by the body's normal acid-base physiologic compensatory mechanisms, resulting in changes that have been repeatedly measured to be minor and unaffecting of performance.

The above sure reads like a "compensatory mechanism".

Don't be getting all acerbic on me now. Buffer your embarrasment some warm milk.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The above sure reads like a "compensatory mechanism".

Don't be getting all acerbic on me now. Buffer your embarrasment some warm milk.

And spell check.

I'm sorry you don't know basic, high-school physiology (ever hear of lactic acid?) thus feel compelled to make fun of what you don't know.

Once again, with feeling ...

Lasix similar to effect of a milkshake? Ridiculous. Lasix has a minor adjustment to elevation of pH (we know that, because that has actually been measured multiple times) but nowhere near what a milkshake does (we know that, because it's been actually measured multiple times).

In fact, our intimate knowledge of the difference in blood pH effects between heat, humidity, lasix, certain feeds, etc. and what a milkshake does is why testing TCO2 levels are set precisely where they are.

Because we know what pH a shot of lasix gives. And we know what pH alkalynizing agents get. They are different.

We have used furosemide internationally for 40 years in the horse, not to mention multiple other species. We know exactly what it does, and how, and why. This is simple, straightforward, basic medical science.

I'm done sparring with the loony conspiracy theorists.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

I'm done sparring with the loony conspiracy theorists.

You were done when I exposed your cross-thread backpedal. Don't kid yourself.

You have been neutralized. I suggest going back to the basics.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

You were done when I exposed your cross-thread backpedal. Don't kid yourself.

You have been neutralized. I suggest going back to the basics.

Do lecture us on HCO3-, acid-base balance, metabolic acidosis, strong ion exchange in the kidney, etc.

You can't even recognize when you're hopelessly clueless about what you are talking about

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

Do lecture us on HCO3-, acid-base balance, metabolic acidosis, strong ion exchange in the kidney, etc.

Don't need to. This isn't a pissing contest (especially since all the participants aren't on lasix).

However, for those who are actually interested, I would whole-heartedly recommend ignoring any of my posts that broach those subjects you mentioned in favor of studying your own...and then presuming the exact opposite of what is written.

There is certainly more to be gained by that method then anything I could possibly cut-and-paste.