NYRA - The Bailout Check is in the mail

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

BTW you can spin this all you want. I know states (not just New York) lends money to state regulated orgainizations. But not to the tune of $30mm. I love the "political" reason excuse. The point is all this is that they cannot run the organization effectively. Why is that? If I run a business and I am not making enough money to operate then I need to change something. There is something I am doing that is not working. I need to find a fix. VLT revenue is not a fix. The NYRA should be able to operate without VLT revenue. Explain to me why they cannot operate effectively.

I am shocked at your level of ignorance here. I don't mean this to be nasty, honestly, but this is a surprising level of naivite coming from someone as knowledgable as you.

Do you understand the political environment NYRA is, and has been, operating under? I am NOT saying they have been run perfectly, far from it, but I really think you have NO idea of the situation.

By the way, in these situations, $30 million is nothing...and if the State hadn't been screwing NYRA over as regards to the slots, which EVERY OTHER TRACK AWARDED THEM IN NY STATE has been granted State approval ( and some years ago ), then this money would hardly be necessary.

I will be happy to enlighten you at Churchill. I am tired of writing the same old obvious stuff.

I hope they don't sell. And if they do please don't sell to the group that includes MAGNA and Churchill.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I am shocked at your level of ignorance here. I don't mean this to be nasty, honestly, but this is a surprising level of naivite coming from someone as knowledgable as you.

Do you understand the political environment NYRA is, and has been, operating under? I am NOT saying they have been run perfectly, far from it, but I really think you have NO idea of the situation.

By the way, in these situations, $30 million is nothing...and if the State hadn't been screwing NYRA over as regards to the slots, which EVERY OTHER TRACK AWARDED THEM IN NY STATE has been granted State approval ( and some years ago ), then this money would hardly be necessary.

I will be happy to enlighten you at Churchill. I am tired of writing the same old obvious stuff.

Maybe so...but please explain to me why this organization cannot run effectively with their currect business model. No one has ever been able to explain this to me. Why do they need VLT revenue to be effective--again, WHY?

I will say this...I also think that the state is wrong by putting a 4% interest on the money loaned. No way should that be the case. If they are going to give them the money then it shouldnt be paid back with interest.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Maybe so...but please explain to me why this organization cannot run effectively with their currect business model. No one has ever been able to explain this to me. Why do they need VLT revenue to be effective--again, WHY?

I think beacuse you could generate the 19mil you need without going to the taxpayers. And stay out of the red.

Originally Posted by kgar311

I think beacuse you could generate the 19mil you need without going to the taxpayers. And stay out of the red.

Again, where do you think the $19mm came from? The money came from taxes. Wether is be taxes from payroll, sales, real estate etc etc it came from some sort of tax.

Another thing I dont understand is why the NYRA is paying property tax. Most companies are exempt from property tax. I know Eli Lilly in Indy doesnt pay property tax but they have to employ a certain amount of people that live in a low income district.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Maybe so...but please explain to me why this organization cannot run effectively with their currect business model. No one has ever been able to explain this to me. Why do they need VLT revenue to be effective--again, WHY?

Listen I will be brief. The system is broken because NYRA gets to keep ZERO money. ALL money is mandated for the state. The system that was put in place in the 50's predates OTBs(direct competition from state), Lotteries(dierect competition from state), simulcasting, internet, etc. The fact that NYRA was not designed with this kind of competition in mind, and add on the fact that they can not put any money away to combat slow runs due to weather, competition, rising employee costs like pensions and health care, etc you can not blame NYRA directly for its current cash crisis. For years NYRA used the horsemans account as a fund whenever they needed cash. Despite denials from the horsemans organization, they knew this was happening and allowed NYRA to do this. ALL money borrowed was paid back and the horsemans account was never in jeapordy of being depleted. When the state audited NYRA they discovered this and didn't allow them to do this any longer. Therefore the current situation that now exists.
BTW -all the money that NYRA earns but is not allowed to keep any of goes directly to the state's coffers. Billions of dollars.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Listen I will be brief. The system is broken because NYRA gets to keep ZERO money. ALL money is mandated for the state. The system that was put in place in the 50's predates OTBs(direct competition from state), Lotteries(dierect competition from state), simulcasting, internet, etc. The fact that NYRA was not designed with this kind of competition in mind, and add on the fact that they can not put any money away to combat slow runs due to weather, competition, rising employee costs like pensions and health care, etc you can not blame NYRA directly for its current cash crisis. For years NYRA used the horsemans account as a fund whenever they needed cash. Despite denials from the horsemans organization, they knew this was happening and allowed NYRA to do this. ALL money borrowed was paid back and the horsemans account was never in jeapordy of being depleted. When the state audited NYRA they discovered this and didn't allow them to do this any longer. Therefore the current situation that now exists.
BTW -all the money that NYRA earns but is not allowed to keep any of goes directly to the state's coffers. Billions of dollars.

The NYRA shouldnt be able to keep any money. Hence the not-for -profit status. All money earned should go back to the state or be spent. Granted, this idea was done before all the competiton but the NYRA has done a poor job of adjusting. They need to adjust their business model to reflect current economic trends.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

The NYRA shouldnt be able to keep any money. Hence the not-for -profit status. All money earned should go back to the state or be spent. Granted, this idea was done before all the competiton but the NYRA has done a poor job of adjusting. They need to adjust their business model to reflect current economic trends.

You guys make good points (euro, thanks for your response, by the way)-- so it seems the big problem is revenue lost to OTBs, etc. is that what is being said? How does the NYRA address that? What do you all think?

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

You guys make good points (euro, thanks for your response, by the way)-- so it seems the big problem is revenue lost to OTBs, etc. is that what is being said? How does the NYRA address that? What do you all think?

I wish I knew the answers.

[Revolution]

NYRA is a joke. I laugh how the state offers them money, but they insist they must get it all right now, instead of over 3 months. I guess the guys at NYRA must have had a tough weekend betting the NFL and their bookmakers are asking to collect right now. Oh, I forgot they are the mobsters. Maybe they got hit hard by the gamblers this weekend are tapped out.

Brilliant business plan on that NYRA. They claim their numbers are up again, but once again they don't have the money to stay afloat. Shocking!

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I wish I knew the answers.

They hire consultants that show them how to run a business, but then they wouldn't be able to keep the corruption running rampant throughout the organization.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

The NYRA shouldnt be able to keep any money. Hence the not-for -profit status. All money earned should go back to the state or be spent. Granted, this idea was done before all the competiton but the NYRA has done a poor job of adjusting. They need to adjust their business model to reflect current economic trends.

Well if you ran a business and were not able to keep any money on hand for operating capital, how do you suppose you would do? The state acts like the mob in shaking down NYRA for every penny that is brought in and not dedicated to current expenses or purses. So when they have a downturn in business they will wind up with a shortfall of cash. It is such a simple concept, I can't figure out why you have a problem understanding. It is not about making a profit , it is about being able to cover operating expenses with the money that they generate, BEFORE having to give it to the state. The state takes the money first now and makes them beg for it back.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Well if you ran a business and were not able to keep any money on hand for operating capital, how do you suppose you would do? The state acts like the mob in shaking down NYRA for every penny that is brought in and not dedicated to current expenses or purses. So when they have a downturn in business they will wind up with a shortfall of cash. It is such a simple concept, I can't figure out why you have a problem understanding. It is not about making a profit , it is about being able to cover operating expenses with the money that they generate, BEFORE having to give it to the state. The state takes the money first now and makes them beg for it back.

You live in a vacuum dont you!!!!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

You live in a vacuum dont you!!!!

It is better in my 'vacuum" than that rock that you must live under

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

They need to adjust their business model to reflect current economic trends.

Where have you been? They are trying to change the business model, and have said that they can't continue with the current one but they cant change until the state govt changes the laws.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Where have you been? They are trying to change the business model, and have said that they can't continue with the current one but they cant change until the state govt changes the laws.

They have been trying for the past 20 years--laughable.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

They have been trying for the past 20 years--laughable.

You've never lived in NY have you?

[ELA]

I think this situation has many complexities and nuances that most of us are completely unaware of. First, let me say that I am not a banner waving member of the NYRA fan club. I do think and want them to retain the franchise -- but under certain conditions; more on that later. Second, I do think NYRA has done some terrible things, mostly in the past. When they tapped into the NYTHA/horsemen's accounts -- that was unacceptable and unjustifiable. It was downright wrong. No excuses. NYRA also has never offered "transparency" in several areas and were not cooperative in any way, shape or form when it came to negotiating with the NYTHA regarding the VLT revenue split deal. They refused to work with and negotiate with the NYTHA. Of course there is more, but that's history.

Now, let me clarify something about this nonprofit topic -- nonprofit is a tax status it is not a management style. In addition, there is no blanket law or section of the tax code that states a nonprofit doesn't get to "keep" money. There are many types of nonprofits. You cannot compare NYRA to a hospital, school system, an endowment or an operating foundation. They are entities of a totally different nature and breed (no pun intended).

As far as NYRA retaining the franchise, personally, I think it is best for bettors, owners, trainers, and racing in general. However, I think they need to change their mindset. They need to be more cooperative and open. They need to get rid of the arrogance and isolationism. They need to be more of a team player. Plus, they need a new business model. If VLT's weren't coming to NY -- nobody, absolutely nobody would be bidding on the franchise. Tax rates and certain mandated and legislated fees must be changed. Other fees and charges that must be paid to the state must be changed. It was more feasible and viable to pay these dollars out in pre-OTB days as well as pre-simulcasting days. The simulcasting model is also not in line vis a vis internet betting, telephone wagering, etc.

VLT's are not the answer. However, what is is the "alternative revenue" model. Look at where Keeneland gets major dollars from -- not VLT's, but from revenue that is generated from the sales company. That subsidy, for lack of a better word, is thrown back into the racing side of the game -- purses, facility, backstretch, etc. The Woodbine model, economically works. A quasi-partnership between the racing industry, the VLT partner, and the provincial government.

The other bidders for the franchise are taking a totally different approach. There is nothing wrong with that and that doesn't make it wrong. However, there is no history there. The other bidders are the upstarts -- yes, with allegedly plenty of money -- and are looking to make this their "first" time. That's an important aspect to remember.

I don't think it's exactly applicable -- however, let's remember that the devil you know is far less dangerous than the devil you don't know.

Eric

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

BTW -all the money that NYRA earns but is not allowed to keep any of goes directly to the state's coffers. Billions of dollars.

It does? How does a group that runs tens of millions in the red contribute billions to the state coffers? I can't wait for this brilliant answer.