TVG

[wild barry]

I thought Mineshaft was overated during his horse of the year season. He loved Belmont winning the Suburban, Woodward, and Jockey Club Gold Cup. He beat alot of horses that had less than stellar records. Although Evening Attire and Volponi were quality horses. I think he retired sound after Jockey Club and chose not to run in BC Classic.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by wild barry

I thought Mineshaft was overated during his horse of the year season. He loved Belmont winning the Suburban, Woodward, and Jockey Club Gold Cup. He beat alot of horses that had less than stellar records. Although Evening Attire and Volponi were quality horses. I think he retired sound after Jockey Club and chose not to run in BC Classic.

There is all truth to what you say other than what is in bold - but - imagine Mineshaft in the handicap division climate of the last few years?

He would have been Cigar v2.0 - and with Neil Howard training him no less.

[slotdirt]

I always thought Artie Schiller was a bit overrated, though I doubt many agree with me here. Nobiz like Shobiz also comes to mind.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I always thought Artie Schiller was a bit overrated,

For a top US based turf horse (via Brazil anyway) - Leroydesanimueax - or however the fucl< you spell it - was underrated. He was a beast...albeit with Frankel's aid.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

For a top US based turf horse (via Brazil anyway) - Leroydesanimueax - or however the fucl< you spell it - was underrated. He was a beast...albeit with Frankel's aid.

Le roi...it mean the king.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I always thought Artie Schiller was a bit overrated, though I doubt many agree with me here. Nobiz like Shobiz also comes to mind.

i agree on both, but nobiz, i think everyone finally woke up on that one.

[randallscott35]

I don't think it is fair to compare Nobiz to Artie. Artie had a much better and deeper career. He was a solid miler.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

i agree on both, but nobiz, i think everyone finally woke up on that one.

Fu Peg after the Derby?

Talk about hysteria for a horse who just won with a flawless trip, an unspectacular figure, and good ole Impeachment not all that far behind in 3rd at the wire.

And he wasn't even undefeated like a Smarty Jones, Barbaro, or Big Brown coming in. He had the mystique of an undefeated horse - without the actual undefeated record.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Fu Peg after the Derby?

Talk about hysteria for a horse who just won with a flawless trip, an unspectacular figure, and good ole Impeachment not all that far behind in 3rd at the wire.

And he wasn't even undefeated like a Smarty Jones, Barbaro, or Big Brown coming in. He had the mystique of an undefeated horse - without the actual undefeated record.

His Jerome was pretty impressive.

[slotdirt]

Denis of Cork was, for a very brief period, quite possibly the most overrated horse on the planet.

I'm sure there are about 703 recent Euros who might fit in this conversation.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm sure there are about 703 recent Euros who might fit in this conversation.

And she would not be one of them....

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Denis of Cork was, for a very brief period, quite possibly the most overrated horse on the planet.

I'm sure there are about 703 recent Euros who might fit in this conversation.

Was the only one to make up significant ground in that 2008 Derby.

The majority of Euros fit it, but especially, ANY horse trained by Aidan O'Brien. NTamm is on standby ready to toss an encyclopedia of awful stats on his US runners.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Nobiz like Shobiz also comes to mind.

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...ght=unbeatable

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by wild barry

I thought Mineshaft was overated during his horse of the year season. He loved Belmont winning the Suburban, Woodward, and Jockey Club Gold Cup. He beat alot of horses that had less than stellar records. Although Evening Attire and Volponi were quality horses. I think he retired sound after Jockey Club and chose not to run in BC Classic.

I thought the top older males that year, in no order, were Congaree, Medaglia d'Oro, Perfect Drift, Candy Ride, Pleasantly Perfect, Mineshaft, and Milwaukee Brew. During that course of that season, Mineshaft only faced one of the other six in that group (Perfect Drift) and he lost that race. I think it's fair to say that when a horse runs in the races he ran in during the fall, you can't say they are ducking anyone. At the same time, I think it's also fair to say that he benefitted from the others facing and beating each other on several different occassions and softening their respective resumes and like you, I also felt like the decision not to run in the BC was made after he won the JCGC and the connections felt that they were in the lead for HOY. I felt that they took a gamble that Congaree or Medaglia d'Oro wouldn't win the Classic and maybe take HOY from them and it paid off.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I thought the top older males that year, in no order, were Congaree, Medaglia d'Oro, Perfect Drift, Candy Ride, Pleasantly Perfect, Mineshaft, and Milwaukee Brew.

Big deal. He ran in the majority of the big handicap races. More so than the other did. He gave weight to pretty respectable horses - and beat them all but once - always running strong against the clock. That is a very strong collection of handicap horses right there - and the vote for HOY was not close.

Look who Cigar beat in the vast majority of his wins - and Mineshaft was about as fast as Cigar. They both had the same perfect running style and both were very tactical horses.

Other than RandallScott and a few other Thoro-Graph fans - no one overrates Mineshaft.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Big deal. He ran in the majority of the big handicap races. More so than the other did. He gave weight to pretty respectable horses - and beat them all but once - always running strong against the clock. That is a very strong collection of handicap horses right there - and the vote for HOY was not close.

Look who Cigar beat in the vast majority of his wins - and Mineshaft was about as fast as Cigar. They both had the same perfect running style and both were very tactical horses.

Other than RandallScott and a few other Thoro-Graph fans - no one overrates Mineshaft.

You consistently sing his praises yet I overrate him? How does that work?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You consistently sing his praises yet I overrate him? How does that work?

Because, unlike a certain moron, I don't think he was as good as horses like Alysheba, Easy Goer, Sunday Silence, Skip Away, Cigar, Holy Bull, and Ghostzapper.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Because, unlike a certain moron, I don't think he was as good as horses like Alysheba, Easy Goer, Sunday Silence, Skip Away, Cigar, Holy Bull, and Ghostzapper.

I've said since 2000....I count nothing GZap did. Is Barry Bonds the best of all time too?...I won't compare him to the others but he is every bit the best I've seen.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I've said since 2000....I count nothing GZap did. Is Barry Bonds the best of all time too?...I won't compare him to the others but he is every bit the best I've seen.

Why do you count nothing that Ghostzapper did?

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I've said since 2000....I count nothing GZap did. Is Barry Bonds the best of all time too?...I won't compare him to the others but he is every bit the best I've seen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't your longtime signature on this site state that Mineshaft was the best horse since Spectacular Bid?

I'd say that calling him better than Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Holy Bull, and Skip Away is overrating him a bit.