Uncle Mo diagnosis

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Mawhip

What strikes me as very strange is that they said Uncle Mo is off all medications. Maybe Dr. Riot, whom I'm very impressed by her insight and intelligence, can explain why a horse with Cholangiohepatitis would not be on some protocol that included antibiotics, more specifically Trental, and vitamin E for a very extended period of time. This innocent comment made by the Winstar folks leads me to believe the whole story is a bunch of bullshit.

You could call Dr. Byars and question him directly about his medical treatment decisions.

I would speculate, based upon the usual treatment of equine cholangiohepatitis secondary to gastrointestinal infection, that:

Was on antibiotics. Done and finished.

You are mistaken. Trental is not an antibiotic. Why should a horse be on pentoxifylline for arterial vascular concerns when he's been getting regular hyperbaric oxygen treatments?

While Vitamin E is a potent anti-inflammatory and useful in animals with gall bladders that release bile acids in response to big meals involving fat with a bolus release of bile acids, horses physiology is different (no gall bladder), and all fats will be restricted to some extent to help prevent future inflammation of the bile ducts.

JMHO.

[Riot]

Wow. How dare I offer an opinion on this subject, huh? Especially one that differs from the popular conspiracy theories? Especially one that turns out the next day to be, so far, 100% accurate?

For those that missed it yesterday, here is my opinion again. And yes, I'll let my statements stand on their own merits.

Those of you who think differently, instead of attacking me, might try being brave and stating your own opinions, and letting your own opinions of the horse stand up to public scrutiny over time, too. Be brave, go for it <g>

Riot said:
I'm sure Uncle Mo is just fine. I'm sure they made the diagnosis some weeks ago, just delayed the announcement to the public. I'd say he's been treated, he's already responded well, he's gained back the 67 lbs, bloodwork shows it's under control, he's in light work, etc.

It's always possible to have a recrudescence, or an abscess, etc. in the future, but I wouldn't actively worry about it.

Riot said:
Well, yeah, when people have posted here that they fear for the horses life (no reason to), and they fear he'll never return to the track (no reason to), and that it's weird of two cases in one barn (not at all weird, btw), and I'm a veterinarian who knows what was published and knows a little more yet about it, yeah, I'm sure.

Because unlike every other person on this thread, I'm not blindly guessing about something I really don't know a thing about.

Damn sorry I added my professional opinion based upon my experience and my local contacts in the veterinary community.

[Dahoss]

"Be impeccable with your word. Speak with integrity."

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

"Be impeccable with your word. Speak with integrity."

Yup. I do.

You? You do anything more than join threads to poke at other posters? The troll act is very old.

Are you sure about this, Riot? Supposedly Breitbart agrees with your diagnosis.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Are you sure about this, Riot? Supposedly Breitbart agrees with your diagnosis.

Let's see ... my opinion has already been judged by Blackthroatedwind, DaHoss, Coach Pants, FreddyMo, Steve ... we still need to hear from the rest of the Derby Trail regulars, who can properly put me in my place for not buying the "smart" conspiracy theories.

Rest of you guys? C'mon, time to pile on!

Genuine Risk, good thing you started this thread, and asked about cholangiohepatitis in Uncle Mo <g>

[Antitrust32]

do you believe the conspiracy theory that Uncle Mo had bone chips removed?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

do you believe the conspiracy theory that Uncle Mo had bone chips removed?

I don't think about it I remember seeing the pictures of the small shaved area.

Originally Posted by Riot

Let's see ... my opinion has already been judged by Blackthroatedwind, DaHoss, Coach Pants, FreddyMo, Steve ... we still need to hear from the rest of the Derby Trail regulars, who can properly put me in my place for not buying the "smart" conspiracy theories.

Rest of you guys? C'mon, time to pile on!

Genuine Risk, good thing you started this thread, and asked about cholangiohepatitis in Uncle Mo <g>

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

I knew a chick like that who used to work at TCBY...ate too much of the product or just generally unhappy, I could never tell.

[Mawhip]

Originally Posted by Riot

You could call Dr. Byars and question him directly about his medical treatment decisions.

I would speculate, based upon the usual treatment of equine cholangiohepatitis secondary to gastrointestinal infection, that:

Was on antibiotics. Done and finished.

You are mistaken. Trental is not an antibiotic. Why should a horse be on pentoxifylline for arterial vascular concerns when he's been getting regular hyperbaric oxygen treatments?

While Vitamin E is a potent anti-inflammatory and useful in animals with gall bladders that release bile acids in response to big meals involving fat with a bolus release of bile acids, horses physiology is different (no gall bladder), and all fats will be restricted to some extent to help prevent future inflammation of the bile ducts.

JMHO.

I'm sorry. I'm not a vet. I thought Trental was an antibiotic. I was just looking at my vet bills from a horse that had the same condition as Uncle Mo. She was attended to by Dr. Nathan Slovis, who I believe was a protege of Dr. Byers. My horse was on this course of treament for many many months. I have a hard time believing Uncle Mo would be all better after a few hyperbaric treamnebts and a few doses of antibiotics.

My non-vet opionion, based on having a very good horse of my own go through the same thing, is that Uncle Mo has absolutely no shot of ever making the races again. If he does, he didn't have Cholangiohepatitus treated with meds for only a few weeks.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Mawhip

I'm sorry. I'm not a vet. I thought Trental was an antibiotic. I was just looking at my vet bills from a horse that had the same condition as Uncle Mo. She was attended to by Dr. Nathan Slovis, who I believe was a protege of Dr. Byers. My horse was on this course of treament for many many months. I have a hard time believing Uncle Mo would be all better after a few hyperbaric treamnebts and a few doses of antibiotics.

My non-vet opionion, based on having a very good horse of my own go through the same thing, is that Uncle Mo has absolutely no shot of ever making the races again. If he does, he didn't have Cholangiohepatitus treated with meds for only a few weeks.

Dr. Slovis is is a wonderful guy and an outstanding doctor. There are different degrees of cholangiohepatitis - that is just a word describing what is inflammed - and many different causes.

Because one horse isn't treated exactly like another horse is no reason to doubt the diagnosis. Your horse may have had a sterile inflammation that was treated symptomatically and responded well after months. There may also have been a degree of liver loss via fibrosis. Uncle Mo had infection. If your horse didn't get antibiotics, there wasn't an (antibiotic-responsive) infectious cause. Was a definitive cause ever established in your horse?

[Mawhip]

Originally Posted by Riot

Dr. Slovis is is a wonderful guy and an outstanding doctor. There are different degrees of cholangiohepatitis - that is just a word describing what is inflammed - and many different causes.

Because one horse isn't treated exactly like another horse is no reason to doubt the diagnosis. Your horse may have had a sterile inflammation that was treated symptomatically and responded well after months. Uncle Mo had infection. If your horse didn't get antibiotics, there wasn't an (antibiotic-responsive) infectious cause. Was a definitive cause ever established in your horse?

She did get antibiotics and no cause was ever established as I imagine its almost impossible to find one.

I find it very strange that you can make these definitive statements about Mo's condition unless you yourself is the one treating the horse.

You do seem like someone who does not lack in confidence.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Mawhip

She did get antibiotics and no cause was ever established as I imagine its almost impossible to find one.

Was she ever able to get back in work with you?

I find it very strange that you can make these definitive statements about Mo's condition unless you yourself is the one treating the horse.

You do seem like someone who does not lack in confidence.

My opinions from a professional medical point of view, is that the public statements are entirely consistent with the normal and usual medical courses of diagnosis and treatment for both horses regarding the diseases they've stated. There is nothing "fishy" or inconsistent in the least about any of the claims or treatments made.

Mine is obviously not a popular opinion.

And no, I do not lack in confidence regarding my knowledge of the diagnosis, treatment and outcomes of these diseases. I do it professionally all day long. You have your opinion based upon your personal experience with your mare, I have mine based upon my personal professional experience and knowledge of the veterinarians involved.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Riot

And no, I do not lack in confidence regarding my knowledge of the diagnosis, treatment and outcomes of these diseases. I do it professionally all day long.

Where are you currently employed?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Where are you currently employed?

Not as a public handicapper for NYRA.

Sorry, Andy. No apology to the DeeTee regulars for daring to not subscribe to the predominant conspiracy theories about Uncle Mo and Pletcher. Nor for using my professional knowledge and experience as a veterinarian to influence my thinking or assessment, nor for saying my opinion publicly on Derby Trail.

[Mawhip]

Originally Posted by Riot

Was she ever able to get back in work with you?



My opinions from a professional medical point of view, is that the public statements are entirely consistent with the normal and usual medical courses of diagnosis and treatment for both horses regarding the diseases they've stated. There is nothing "fishy" or inconsistent in the least about any of the claims or treatments made.

Mine is obviously not a popular opinion.

And no, I do not lack in confidence regarding my knowledge of the diagnosis, treatment and outcomes of these diseases. I do it professionally all day long. You have your opinion based upon your personal experience with your mare, I have mine based upon my personal professional experience and knowledge of the veterinarians involved.

Of course there is something fishy with the statements they made. If you believe for one second Uncle Mo is not on any medications, then you should have your veterninary licence revoked immediately.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Mawhip

Of course there is something fishy with the statements they made. If you believe for one second Uncle Mo is not on any medications, then you should have your veterninary licence revoked immediately.

Of course, you know best that Dr. Byars is lying publicly.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Mawhip

I'm sorry. I'm not a vet. I thought Trental was an antibiotic. I was just looking at my vet bills from a horse that had the same condition as Uncle Mo. She was attended to by Dr. Nathan Slovis, who I believe was a protege of Dr. Byers. My horse was on this course of treament for many many months. I have a hard time believing Uncle Mo would be all better after a few hyperbaric treamnebts and a few doses of antibiotics.

My non-vet opionion, based on having a very good horse of my own go through the same thing, is that Uncle Mo has absolutely no shot of ever making the races again. If he does, he didn't have Cholangiohepatitus treated with meds for only a few weeks.

Hold on...you had a very good horse in this century..Someone call Joe Drape!