MARKETING CONVERSATIONS: 2 interesting pieces

[dalakhani]

How does Churchill Downs get 38,000 plus people on a saturday night with no significant stake race?

Whatever they did, it worked. Why can't this be mimicked?

[dalakhani]

For the record, I think what the author is proposing in the positioning article is silly.

You aren't going to get people in the door by telling them they have to learn something new and solve puzzles while risking money. Sure, once you get people in the door, you can find some of them that will become players but the problem for the most part is getting people to actually come to track. And we do this by telling them that they will solve puzzles while the track takes 25% of what they bet? Good luck with that one.

Fewer days, more horses in a nicer setting with greater entertainment bang. Going to the track needs to be an event with racing being part of the package.

What did Churchill do differently to draw 38k?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

For the record, I think what the author is proposing in the positioning article is silly.

You aren't going to get people in the door by telling them they have to learn something new and solve puzzles while risking money. Sure, once you get people in the door, you can find some of them that will become players but the problem for the most part is getting people to actually come to track. And we do this by telling them that they will solve puzzles while the track takes 25% of what they bet? Good luck with that one.

Fewer days, more horses in a nicer setting with greater entertainment bang. Going to the track needs to be an event with racing being part of the package.

What did Churchill do differently to draw 38k?

I still can't understand why people dont understand why this won't work?

The appeal of horse racing should be that you can make money at it. That if you work hard enough at it you can figure out the puzzle and be financially rewarded. All this other stuff is fluff.

Trying to create an atmosphere where every racing day is an event outside of Saratoga or maybe Keeneland or Del Mar is pretty much impossible. Not to mention that most tracks heavily depend on simulcasting which will always be hard to make sexy. Too often when we talk about big picture ideas in racing we forget that the majority of racing is not Saturday at Saratoga.

The game needs to attract people smart enough to appreciate and relish the challenge of handicapping and greedy enough to keep coming back.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I still can't understand why people dont understand why this won't work?

The appeal of horse racing should be that you can make money at it. That if you work hard enough at it you can figure out the puzzle and be financially rewarded. All this other stuff is fluff.

Trying to create an atmosphere where every racing day is an event outside of Saratoga or maybe Keeneland or Del Mar is pretty much impossible. Not to mention that most tracks heavily depend on simulcasting which will always be hard to make sexy. Too often when we talk about big picture ideas in racing we forget that the majority of racing is not Saturday at Saratoga.

The game needs to attract people smart enough to appreciate and relish the challenge of handicapping and greedy enough to keep coming back.

This outmoded thinking is exactly why the sport is going in the toilet. Why is it impossible to create a festive atmosphere in places other than the ones that have already done it? I fail to understand why people think the present course will actually work.

You aren't going to get enough SMART people that are DUMB enough to bet horses regularly...certainly not if your means of attracting them is by pitching this silly puzzle thing.

The places you named, as well as downs after dark, do well because they sell it as an event as well as an image. The image of high society with things that appeal outside of racing and gambling. I agree that the backbone is still the gambler but in order to attract new ones you have to change the perception of the track being a seedy place where a bunch of degenerate losers and nursing homers go to waste their lives away.

Vegas didn't get you in by selling you the gambling. They sold the party and lifestyle.

[Rootdog1]

well, we agree to disagree. Saying its a party is not a true sustainable model....sorry, it just isnt. Might work for 4 Friday nights a year.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rootdog1

well, we agree to disagree. Saying its a party is not a true sustainable model....sorry, it just isnt. Might work for 4 Friday nights a year.

And the "puzzle" thing is sustainable?

"hey, smart guy! Yes, you. Come on down to pimlico and give the house 25% so that you can get your windows washed by the crackhead and solve some puzzles for money. You may feel like you're in a penitentiary and you may have to dodge a few rats but this is what smart guys do!"

Yes, certainly sustainable. I stand corrected.

[dalakhani]

I almost forgot the second part of the ad, the one geared toward the smart women out there:

"Hey, smart girl! Yes, you. Come on out to Pimlico and sit in a smelly smoke filled room where you can give the house 25% to help pay for the security guard to escort you out when you leave. On some days, maybe there might actually be another girl or two under the age of 70 that are here because they are smart and they like to solve puzzles. Why in God's name would you want to go to a bar or a mall or a restaurant or a show when you could be down here being eye groped?"

I apologize to all. The puzzle idea rocks!

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rootdog1

well, we agree to disagree. Saying its a party is not a true sustainable model....sorry, it just isnt. Might work for 4 Friday nights a year.

Seriously, its only sustainable at Keeneland, Saratoga, del mar and now churchill downs?

Why would it not be sustainable anywhere else? And why couldn't it help to draw more fans for the days that it wasn't a "party"?

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Seriously, its only sustainable at Keeneland, Saratoga, del mar and now churchill downs?

Why would it not be sustainable anywhere else? And why couldn't it help to draw more fans for the days that it wasn't a "party"?

It's much more complicated than just saying reduce dates, make it a party.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Seriously, its only sustainable at Keeneland, Saratoga, del mar and now churchill downs?

Why would it not be sustainable anywhere else? And why couldn't it help to draw more fans for the days that it wasn't a "party"?

Most days CD is deserted. Keeneland is 15 days every 6 months right in th middle of horse country. Saratoga isnt exactly jammed on Mondays/Wednesday and Thursday and by the end of the meet the festive atmosphere has worn off.

And the fact is that Saratoga has the history angle, and Keeneland and CD are located in one of the few areas where horse racing is still a big deal. Why do you think that you can bottle this festive atmosphere and transfer it other places?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This outmoded thinking is exactly why the sport is going in the toilet. Why is it impossible to create a festive atmosphere in places other than the ones that have already done it? I fail to understand why people think the present course will actually work.

You aren't going to get enough SMART people that are DUMB enough to bet horses regularly...certainly not if your means of attracting them is by pitching this silly puzzle thing.

The places you named, as well as downs after dark, do well because they sell it as an event as well as an image. The image of high society with things that appeal outside of racing and gambling. I agree that the backbone is still the gambler but in order to attract new ones you have to change the perception of the track being a seedy place where a bunch of degenerate losers and nursing homers go to waste their lives away.

Vegas didn't get you in by selling you the gambling. They sold the party and lifestyle.

Stick to off topic and sports threads.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Stick to off topic and sports threads.

Or?

Will you troll me and say mean things to me?

Lets stay on topic. Certainly you are bright enough.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Or?

Will you troll me and say mean things to me?

Lets stay on topic. Certainly you are bright enough.

Will I troll you and say mean things to YOU?

That's rich.

Those are your tactics. Own them, or cry about it in another thread.

The problem is you aren't bright enough for this thread. Which is why I suggested you stick to the areas where you can pretend you are.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This outmoded thinking is exactly why the sport is going in the toilet. Why is it impossible to create a festive atmosphere in places other than the ones that have already done it? I fail to understand why people think the present course will actually work.

You aren't going to get enough SMART people that are DUMB enough to bet horses regularly...certainly not if your means of attracting them is by pitching this silly puzzle thing.

The places you named, as well as downs after dark, do well because they sell it as an event as well as an image. The image of high society with things that appeal outside of racing and gambling. I agree that the backbone is still the gambler but in order to attract new ones you have to change the perception of the track being a seedy place where a bunch of degenerate losers and nursing homers go to waste their lives away.

Vegas didn't get you in by selling you the gambling. They sold the party and lifestyle.

Ok take today for example. How do you suppose we create an event atmosphere for Belmont on a typical Thursday?

We need to sell gambling because that is our product. What has been written about is hardly the current course. I guess people who think like you just dont understand or refuse to acknowledge that economic realities exist and we can't make every day Xmas.

I find it hard to believe that we can trick potential gamblers into thinking that they are high society people and then they will start to become regulars. Especially when virtually all the growth in the gambling market is online.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ok take today for example. How do you suppose we create an event atmosphere for Belmont on a typical Thursday?

We need to sell gambling because that is our product. What has been written about is hardly the current course. I guess people who think like you just dont understand or refuse to acknowledge that economic realities exist and we can't make every day Xmas.

I find it hard to believe that we can trick potential gamblers into thinking that they are high society people and then they will start to become regulars. Especially when virtually all the growth in the gambling market is online.

No one starts as a 500 dollar a hand player in Las Vegas. Many people didn't go to Vegas the first time to gamble. Many go for the shopping, shows, spas and restaurants. Many Blackjack players started out in nickel slots. Many craps players started with Roulette.

I agree that the gambler is the backbone but there are other ways to bring new gamblers in or even create them that are much better than what isn't working.

The "high society" thing is simply meaning that we have to change the perceptions. We have to be realistic about the perception of the game to the masses. That is what most fail to grasp.

Is Belmont Park female friendly? Would you feel comfortable taking a date there? Compare it to what Churchill Downs has done with the renovations.

I realize that every day can't be Christmas. But if you make more "christmas like" days, perhaps you can draw more than 50 people on regular days. Perhaps if the first experience someone has at Belmont Park isn't with Broken toilets, bad food and a general lack of hygene, maybe they might come back and bring other people with them. Maybe one out of twenty ends up falling in love with the sport...like we did.

Gambling is our product and selling gambling will ensure that all you get is current gamblers. Good luck selling that vig in those venues. Good luck when horse racing results aren't even published in most newspapers on a daily any longer. Good luck when ESPN has it on their website with "other sports".

The product should be "entertainment" because you want to draw current gamblers and prospective gamblers.

To answer your original question about Belmont, days like these are inevitable. You can bolster them much better if you can provide a better overall experience in your "event" days. I think that they need to do a monmouth style thing and shorten the racing days or close some tracks. There aren't enough horses.

[Dahoss]

Belmont Park is as female friendly as any other track. Judging it based on Big Brown's Belmont Day isn't exactly fair. Most days aren't like that.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I still can't understand why people dont understand why this won't work?

The appeal of horse racing should be that you can make money at it. That if you work hard enough at it you can figure out the puzzle and be financially rewarded. All this other stuff is fluff.

Trying to create an atmosphere where every racing day is an event outside of Saratoga or maybe Keeneland or Del Mar is pretty much impossible. Not to mention that most tracks heavily depend on simulcasting which will always be hard to make sexy. Too often when we talk about big picture ideas in racing we forget that the majority of racing is not Saturday at Saratoga.

The game needs to attract people smart enough to appreciate and relish the challenge of handicapping and greedy enough to keep coming back.

This sums it up pretty well.

The other thing I don't hear mentioned enough is it's not as though we have a shortage of gamblers out there. We're a society of action junkies looking to bet on anything. We just need to steer them in our direction.

[horseofcourse]

In the end, I think the problem is that you do actually need to study AND be smart to make money gambling on horse racing. Society is now very fast paced and most don't have the time to make the time investment to be successful doing it. I tried it for a year and a half and found out very quickly, I couldn't do it. I was flushing money down the toilet. I quit. I always liked the sport for the thoroughbred running aspect of it as their efficiency of running fast is pretty cool, but I've got a family and a job and crap taking up time that I simply don't have the ability to gamble on the sport at all. I just don't.

Unfortunately society is getting more dumbed down by the second, and the fact that you actually need to think in gambling on horse racing is a detriment in my opinion. You need no thinking to pull a lever and that is where we are headed more and more.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

How does Churchill Downs get 38,000 plus people on a saturday night with no significant stake race?

Whatever they did, it worked. Why can't this be mimicked?

It was sold as an unique event in a horse racing friendly town with very little going on at a popular venue that lies right next to a big university. It has a lot more to do with the demographics of the city than horse racing. Hell if they just had a big party there with no racing they would still get 25k people.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It was sold as an unique event in a horse racing friendly town with very little going on at a popular venue that lies right next to a big university. It has a lot more to do with the demographics of the city than horse racing. Hell if they just had a big party there with no racing they would still get 25k people.

Maybe you are on to something here Chuckers. Is Louisville any more "horse racing friendly" than say NYC? And even if it is, the sheer size of the urban venues could easily create the same gate if sold the right way.

Handle was up over 25% year over year not to mention rev from concessions.