Praying for Cash retired

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I do believe that a synthetic surface is safer than SOME dirt surfaces. However, I would have much rather seen tracks trying to tweak their dirt surfaces to make them safer rather than just embracing synthetic surfaces. Like the good dirt surfaces, synthetic surfaces aren't going to prevent all breakdowns. I do believe they they prevent a lot of breakdowns or the breakdowns from being so grotesque or fatal though. I need to see more to make a decision on how safe that I think the synthetic surfaces are compared to a good dirt surface. I would imagine that they are about the same.

With that being said, I definitely think that polytrack has purposes on tracks that need an all-weather surface, tracks that have had an unimaginable number of breakdowns who have tried tweaking their dirt surface, or for training purposes. Otherwise, KEEP IT OUT OF THE INDUSTRY!!!

Again, it is far too early in the career of Polytrack to come up with definitive numbers on breakdowns, the fact of the matter as it stands right now is there have been an ENORMOUS amount of career/catastrophic breakdowns on the current dirt surfaces, of that there is no denying. The mere fact something, ANYTHING, is being done to alleviate this trajedy should be applauded. I say lets let the next few years determine the safety to the horses and riders. The races will still be run, gamblers will still lay bets and the games will continue no worse for wear, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I will say that anyone who actually knows horses intimately, ie.. actually is hands on owners, riders etc... will tell you to a person that there is no way you can deny the surface is easier on a horses legs, now whether that translates to better racing in the afternoons is the question.

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I will say that anyone who actually knows horses intimately, ie.. actually is hands on owners, riders etc... will tell you to a person that there is no way you can deny the surface is easier on a horses legs,

I am - and it is actually harder on horse's soft tissue, which is just as crucial to their ability to stay healthy enough to be racehorses than bone conditions and injuries sustained by concussion on dirt....

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I am - and it is actually harder on horse's soft tissue, which is just as crucial to their ability to stay healthy enough to be racehorses than bone conditions and injuries sustained by concussion on dirt....

I completely disagree,the concussion on soft tissues and joints is completely different, it is absorbed much more readily by the entire body, thats why the horses legs are not swelling and stocking up after running on it, they are bouncing over it as opposed to pounding their legs on the dirt.
I respect your knowledge and opinion, but I completely disagree.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I completely disagree,the concussion on soft tissues and joints is completely different, it is absorbed much more readily by the entire body, thats why the horses legs are not swelling and stocking up after running on it, they are bouncing over it as opposed to pounding their legs on the dirt.
I respect your knowledge and opinion, but I completely disagree.

And I completely disagree with you.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

And I completely disagree with you.

And I respectfully with you.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I completely disagree,the concussion on soft tissues and joints is completely different, it is absorbed much more readily by the entire body, thats why the horses legs are not swelling and stocking up after running on it, they are bouncing over it as opposed to pounding their legs on the dirt.
I respect your knowledge and opinion, but I completely disagree.

I agree with you Larhage. I'm shaking my head thinking about it because I can't figure out how it would be better for concussion, yet worse for soft tissue. I've never had any problem with any one of my horses over the stuff. I can't think of a logical explanation. Although Cunningham Racing is extremely knowledgeable, so I'll give him a chance to explain himself. There is probably something that I am missing...

I still am a traditionalist though, and don't advocate polytrack except in those extreme circumstances and for training tracks.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I agree with you Larhage. I'm shaking my head thinking about it because I can't figure out how it would be better for concussion, yet worse for soft tissue. I've never had any problem with any one of my horses over the stuff. I can't think of a logical explanation. Although Cunningham Racing is extremely knowledgeable, so I'll give him a chance to explain himself. There is probably something that I am missing...

It's kind of like swimming in a way...

Swimming is very good for people (and animals) that have had an impactual injury, but the water resistance is tougher on soft tissue. I really don't know how to put it into words, but I disagree with your thought on it...

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

It's kind of like swimming in a way...

Swimming is very good for people (and animals) that have had an impactual injury, but the water resistance is tougher on soft tissue. I really don't know how to put it into words, but I disagree with your thought on it...

Well, I am basing it on my experience and don't see how in the world you could correlate training over polytrack to a swimming pool. If anything, synthetic surfaces create less resistance than dirt surfaces because of the boyancy factor. It creates less resistance to my animals anyway. Horses bounce over it, which is why so many TBs who are talented on the dirt have problems running over it.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Well, I am basing it on my experience and don't see how in the world you could correlate training over polytrack to a swimming pool. If anything, synthetic surfaces create less resistance than dirt surfaces because of the boyancy factor. Horses bounce over it, which is why so many TBs who are talented on the dirt have problems running over it.

And because it's so buoyant, they don't hit the ground as hard, correct? What do you think happens to horses who are USED to hitting the ground hard? They will still use JUST AS MUCH effort to pick their feet up and because of that, it causes more soft injury injuries. I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Cunningham on this one.

Here's the definition for buoyant (in case you were wondering why I compared the surface to swimming):

buoyant
–adjective

1. tending to float in a fluid.
2. capable of keeping a body afloat, as a liquid.
3. not easily depressed; cheerful.
4. cheering or invigorating.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I agree with you Larhage. I'm shaking my head thinking about it because I can't figure out how it would be better for concussion, yet worse for soft tissue. I've never had any problem with any one of my horses over the stuff. I can't think of a logical explanation. Although Cunningham Racing is extremely knowledgeable, so I'll give him a chance to explain himself. There is probably something that I am missing...

I still am a traditionalist though, and don't advocate polytrack except in those extreme circumstances and for training tracks.

The more a horse slips, runs off balance, and the track breaks away from him - the more prone he will miss step or over step in ways that cause soft tissue injuries.....Also, I have talked to more than few trainers who wintered at Turfway Park this past winter who came back to CD in the spring and told me that while they had less injuries with horses up front, they incurred far more injuries with horses rear ends.....pulled stifles, pulled backs, etc....you know hat happenes to a horse when his pusher is sore? He ver compensates on the front end when he runs and the over-compensation causes front-end problems to follow....

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

The more a horse slips, runs off balance, and the track breaks away from him - the more prone he will miss step or over step in ways that cause soft tissue injuries.....Also, I have talked to more than few trainers who wintered at Turfway Park this past winter who came back to CD in the spring and told me that while they had less injuries with horses up front, they incurred far more injuries with horses rear ends.....pulled stifles, pulled backs, etc....you know hat happenes to a horse when his pusher is sore? He ver compensates on the front end when he runs and the over-compensation causes front-end problems to follow....

Alright, I'll withold further judgment until a friend tells me how his horses are doing over the stuff. I didn't know that horses often slipped over the stuff or that the track broke away more easily. That would definitely cause soft tissue injuries.

....pulled stifles, pulled backs, etc....you know hat happenes to a horse when his pusher is sore? He ver compensates on the front end when he runs and the over-compensation causes front-end problems to follow....

And Joel, you knew that I knew this stuff I know that I am ignorant about some things, but I am not THAT ignorant .

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Alright, I'll withold further judgment until a friend tells me how his horses are doing over the stuff. I didn't know that horses often slipped over the stuff or that the track broke away more easily. That would definitely cause soft tissue injuries.

....pulled stifles, pulled backs, etc....you know hat happenes to a horse when his pusher is sore? He ver compensates on the front end when he runs and the over-compensation causes front-end problems to follow....

And Joel, you knew that I knew this stuff I know that I am ignorant about some things, but I am not THAT ignorant .

I know, I wasn't talking at you...I was making a general point to support concerns for hind end issues and how serious theyv were...

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Alright, I'll withold further judgment until a friend tells me how his horses are doing over the stuff. I didn't know that horses often slipped over the stuff or that the track broke away more easily. That would definitely cause soft tissue injuries.

....pulled stifles, pulled backs, etc....you know hat happenes to a horse when his pusher is sore? He ver compensates on the front end when he runs and the over-compensation causes front-end problems to follow....

And Joel, you knew that I knew this stuff I know that I am ignorant about some things, but I am not THAT ignorant .

Its why they train fine and seem to be sounder when training over it, as opposed to the running itself.
But they aren't going breakneck full speed in the mornings. Afternoons are another story.