Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

No I want to know from you specifically what demands of Scott Walker have the teachers union specifically agreed to? You seem to know so much about the topic and have so much information I want to know from you since you stated that the teachers union have agreed to his demands other than collective bargaining. What have they agreed to?

Oh, then go read your own post back at the start of this thread, where you outlined them

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Oh, then go read your own post back at the start of this thread, where you outlined them

Since you don't want to answer my first question I will try another one. What would be the reaction of the federal employees if President Obama proposed the same changes to federal employees that Scott Walker is proposing to WI state employees? Would there be as much outrage?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Since you don't want to answer my first question I will try another one. What would be the reaction of the federal employees if President Obama proposed the same changes to federal employees that Scott Walker is proposing to WI state employees? Would there be as much outrage?

I'm happy to answer your first question, except your deliberate and silly obtuseness is a waste of time - go read your own post where you accurately outlined what was in the Walker package regarding benefit and pension cuts. You know what they are. The unions have repeatedly, publicly agreed to those. They have agreed to everything but removal of collective bargaining rights. Walker refuses to compromise with them. He has stated so publicly when directly confronted by reporters asking about the union compromises.

Does it bother you, the other significant and important things hidden within that 144-page bill? That Walker is legally taking supervision and responsibility away from the legislature and consolidating them, without supervision, within the governors' office?

Such as the "emergency measures" regarding a new unilateral right of only himself to determine public aid qualifications, amounts paid outside the public or legislature?

The new singular ability of only himself to lease or sell, for whatever amount he wants, your state utility companies?

Do you think that is a good thing, that Walker is taking those activities away from current control by the legislature? That a Governor is trying to pass law to decrease the normal Legislative branch representation and control over major, expensive, important programs and income for your state, and place all of it, unsupervised and unaccountable, in the hands of one person who has to answer to no one else?

I'm shocked that everyone in Wisconsin, from any and all political persuasions, isn't angrily marching on the state capital and telling Walker he wasn't elected dictator, over the other secret hidden stuff, above, in that falsely alleged "fiscal" bill.

I'm sure if federal employees faced the sudden and complete loss of their right to collectively bargain, they'd behave exactly as union members in Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana are acting right now.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

I'm happy to answer your first question, except your deliberate and silly obtuseness is a waste of time - go read your own post where you accurately outlined what was in the Walker package regarding benefit and pension cuts. You know what they are. The unions have repeatedly, publicly agreed to those. They have agreed to everything but removal of collective bargaining rights. Walker refuses to compromise with them. He has stated so publicly.

I'm sure if federal employees faced the sudden and complete loss of their right to collectively bargain, they'd act exactly as union members in Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana are acting right now.

Since federal employees don't have the right to collective bargain for wages, benefits, etc. they would be elated if they had the benefits Scott walker is proposing for state workers. If collective bargaining doesn't exist on the federal level why does it need to exist on the state level? Actually in Walker's proposal the union still has the right to collective bargain for wages. I don't see federal workers complaining about their jobs, benefits, heallthcare premiums, working conditions, etc.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Since federal employees don't have the right to collective bargain for wages, benefits, etc. they would be elated if they had the benefits Scott walker is proposing for state workers.

The TSA doesn't have collective bargaining? I believe they do (but may be wrong). The rest of the federal government is indeed highly unionized in some sectors, although the Federal Government is "right to work"

If collective bargaining doesn't exist on the federal level why does it need to exist on the state level?

Why shouldn't it exist on a state level? It's the states that entered into these agreements, too. The states gain by collective bargaining, that's shown by how their workers tend to get less than the private sector in nearly every case.

State workers have every right to collectively bargain. What are the reasons NOT to allow it? Especially when the current Republican House is trying to decrease minimum wage, decrease workplace protections (EPA and OSHA) Looks like unions may become more necessary if the GOP has their way with the current law.

Actually in Walker's proposal the union still has the right to collective bargain for wages.

No. They only have the ability to collectively bargain for wages only up to the CPI, which makes the value of that pennies.

Why are you ignoring the rest of what is in the Walker bill? That's some damn important stuff he's trying to sneak on through.

[Danzig]

tsa has limited bargaining rights. treasury has a union-not sure who else is covered.

[Riot]

Wisconsin State Senator Tim Carpenter sends a letter to Walker, calls for his resignation:

http://wispolitics.com/1006/large/11...ter_letter.pdf

Dear Governor Walker,

I am informed that a tape recording has been released in which you apparently held an extensive discussion with someone you believed to be your campaign supporter, David Koch. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel states that the caller was actually a reporter, pretending to be David Koch, and it has posted a transcript of the recording. It appears that you admit the call occurred, and have not contested the authenticity of transcript.

David Koch is the billionaire businessman who reportedly contributed thousands to your campaign and who the media claims is a key source of funding for shadowy political groups that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars attacking your political adversaries in our state.

At a historic moment in our State’s history, brought on by your refusal to compromise with elected officials regarding the elimination of worker’s rights, you still refuse to talk with Democratic legislators. However, you apparently have no problem taking a phone call from “Mr. Koch” and to:

• Discuss your strategy to lay off public workers to seek partisan advantage to pass
your agenda;
• Discuss your plan to lure Democratic legislators to the Capitol on the pretext of
negotiation, but then state that you would never actually negotiate;
• Discuss your plan to use the pretext of negotiation to get a quorum for legislative
fiscal action that Republicans so far have not been able to do;
• Discuss that you considered the “planting” of paid troublemakers into the
peaceful protests at our Capitol; and to
• Give your enthusiastic acceptance to an offer from “Koch” to fly you out on a vacation to show you a “good time” once you “crush these bastards.” Your response was “That would be outstanding…” Given that Koch’s businesses could reap vast rewards with the ‘no bid’ sale of the Wisconsin’s power plants that you propose in your budget repair bill, this response is severely troubling.

Governor Walker, this tape would make Richard Nixon blush. If the recording and the items discussed by you are indeed your plans, you have no business being in public office in our State, and should resign.

Sincerely,

Tim Carpenter

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...cc4c002e0.html

Madison's mayor and police chief Thursday called on Gov. Scott Walker to explain statements he made in a secretly recorded phone conversation that he "thought about" planting troublemakers among the thousands of demonstrators at the Capitol.

"Someone in his inner circle raised seriously the possibility of hiring people to come in and apparently create violence in my city," Mayor Dave Cieslewicz said. "I find it appalling, and I want to know who that was."

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

tsa has limited bargaining rights. treasury has a union-not sure who else is covered.

TSA does not have collective bargaining rights

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

The TSA doesn't have collective bargaining? I believe they do (but may be wrong). The rest of the federal government is indeed highly unionized in some sectors, although the Federal Government is "right to work"



Why shouldn't it exist on a state level? It's the states that entered into these agreements, too. The states gain by collective bargaining, that's shown by how their workers tend to get less than the private sector in nearly every case.

State workers have every right to collectively bargain. What are the reasons NOT to allow it? Especially when the current Republican House is trying to decrease minimum wage, decrease workplace protections (EPA and OSHA) Looks like unions may become more necessary if the GOP has their way with the current law.




No. They only have the ability to collectively bargain for wages only up to the CPI, which makes the value of that pennies.

Why are you ignoring the rest of what is in the Walker bill? That's some damn important stuff he's trying to sneak on through.

What is your solution to the budget deficit in WI? Do u borrow more $ or raise taxes like IL just did. Do u end up like CA begging for donations to keep schools running? Please offer me your solutions and by saying that you just agree to the contributions to pension and healthcare is not a viable solution. What do u propose?

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by wiphan

What is your solution to the budget deficit in WI? Do u borrow more $ or raise taxes like IL just did. Do u end up like CA begging for donations to keep schools running? Please offer me your solutions and by saying that you just agree to the contributions to pension and healthcare is not a viable solution. What do u propose?

Tax the Rich - they need to pay more ! They "earned" it on the backs of the poor working middle class and come on let's face it they really didn't earn it,so it's not really theirs anyway.

Tax the Corporations - they are making too much money and there is proof that they are just stock piling their profits. It's really the peoples money, we just need to get our hands on it and get it into the government agencies so they can use it to the betterment of the middle class.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Why shouldn't it exist on a state level? It's the states that entered into these agreements, too. The states gain by collective bargaining, that's shown by how their workers tend to get less than the private sector in nearly every case.

State workers have every right to collectively bargain. What are the reasons NOT to allow it? Especially when the current Republican House is trying to decrease minimum wage, decrease workplace protections (EPA and OSHA) Looks like unions may become more necessary if the GOP has their way with the current law..[/b]

If you do not limit collective bargaining with the teachers union then there is no negiotiating with them. If the teachers union had in the last 30 yrs actually given on some items we would not be in this situation. They have a monopoly. Do you know who the healthcare provider is for the teachers in WI? It is WEAT trust ie.- the teachers union plan. If you government were allowed to shop this plan with the same benefits they could save millions of dollars to the tax payers. The teachers union would not allow it. The average time to negotiate a contract with the teachers union is 15 months. Since Gov Doyle and the democrats put us in this situation and used Pres Obama's stimulus $ to fill the holes of the budget instead of create stimulus/jobs we do not have 15 months unless you would like to see mass layoffs. It is your choice either pass the bill or people lose jobs.

The people of WI voted last November. Our state is a tax hell. Most teachers when they retire (which they get the average of their last 3 yrs pay for lifetime and if they die their surving spoust gets it) move out of state because of the tax issues. WI people are tired of paying taxes, seeing corporations move large portions of their operations (Harley, Miller/Coors, etc.). Increases taxes does not create revenue and is not a viable long term solution since it is a never ending cycle since no revenue is created. Gov Walker is not a dictator. He is doing what he was elected to do by the people of WI. He won easily and ran on the very campaign items that he is doing today. Unlike most politicians he puts his $ where his mouth is. Elections have consequences as we all know.

Just to give you an example of the taxes a typical home married tax payer who owns a $200k house in Milwaukee and makes $75k annually pays in WI taxes not including federal taxes

Sales tax 5.1%
$5200 annual property taxes
$6318 state income tax

WI is a great state, but a tax hell and things need to change otherwise we will end up like MI

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

If the teachers union had in the last 30 yrs actually given on some items we would not be in this situation.

You're not saying that the unions have caused the budget deficits, I hope. That's certainly not true.

Wisconsin had a $136 million surplus this year, until Walker gave $140 million of unfunded tax incentives to corporations in his first month of office.

There is a 3.6 billion deficit projected over the next few years, which is far less than the 5.something billion deficit the last governor dealt with. In other words, there is no drastic or acute emergency right now as Walker maintains. That's a lie.

Walker has instituted this "budget repair bill", but there isn't enough deficit to trigger the need for a "repair bill" according to Wisconsin's own independent office of budget that consults to the state assemblies (repair bill is a technical term)

Since 1981, 2/3 of Wisconsin's corporations no longer pay any taxes at all.

Think that could be affecting state finances?

Maybe corporations could start paying some taxes. Rather than putting all taxes on working people.

This bill isn't about the deficit at all. It's just about union busting, and everyone knows it, even the Republicans now say that (as revealed on Walkers tape with "Koch" - will is leading to ethics violation charges for him)