Bluegrass Cat Retired

[quote=Blue Eyes]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Maybe you need to re-read my post. Especially the 2nd to last sentence. That's my take on the situation. Most trainers try to figure out why a horse is running down where it usually doesn't run down. I'm sure Pletcher knew. He also knew the horse was heading to the shed soon too. What? You think those front wraps were for ankle support??? What's your reason for them? You think Pletcher just wanted to see what BC would look like with socks?
BTW, do you really think Pletcher worked hard to get where he's at? He walked out of Waynes barn and had horses waiting for him. Yeah, that's real tough. And I've seen how Lukas' assistants work. The only thing they worry about is hearing Wayne scream at them every now and then. I've seen outfits ten times tougher to work for than his.

Lemme tell you something. Todd is not only very smart and a master at his craft, but very professional as well.
Ever deal with him on anything? He as professional as they come. Lemme guess, if you had his stock you would do even better, and hes just lucky, blah blah blah. What a joke.

[ELA]

There is no doubt Pletcher knows his craft -- period. On the other hand, several people who sit near me in Saratoga immediately noticed the front wraps as did I. Tom Amello and Nick Kling spoke about it the next day and I know Tom picked up on it instantaneously because he came right over to me and said something.

Sure it was a sign but to draw a straight line from one to the other, that's a huge reach as far as I am concerned.

Eric

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ELA

There is no doubt Pletcher knows his craft -- period. On the other hand, several people who sit near me in Saratoga immediately noticed the front wraps as did I. Tom Amello and Nick Kling spoke about it the next day and I know Tom picked up on instantaneously because he came right over to me and said something.

Sure it was a sign but to draw a straight line from one to the other, that's a huge reach as far as I am concerned.

Eric

i wonder how many jumped off his bandwagon when they saw them??? i bet not nearly as many as those who brought up the front wraps after they found out about the fracture. easy to look smart when the outcome is known!!
i don't recall anyone on here commenting at or after race time about his wraps, only the next day when the news came out....ah, hindsight. always 20-20.

[todko]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i wonder how many jumped off his bandwagon when they saw them??? i bet not nearly as many as those who brought up the front wraps after they found out about the fracture. easy to look smart when the outcome is known!!
i don't recall anyone on here commenting at or after race time about his wraps, only the next day when the news came out....ah, hindsight. always 20-20.

I jumped right off seeing the wraps. And to see the fractions in that race leads me to believe the horse wasn't right to begin with. Despite the wraps, he didn't look good on any other criteria also.

And I wasn't part of this forum on that day. If I was, you would have sure heard about it from me -- before he was beaten by the supposed superhorse.

Frankel runs Leriod with bar shoes to pick up a place check in the BC mile last year. Knows the horse has a foot injury but he and NYRA play the game and dupe the bettor. That horse should have been scratched or run for purse only. That was an ugly thing to do to the bettor. And you're saying the same thing couldn't have been done with Bluegrass Cat in the Travers?

Wake up and smell the coffee. Or if you can't smell the coffee, then smell the money being passed under the table.

[quote=todko]I jumped right off seeing the wraps. And to see the fractions in that race leads me to believe the horse wasn't right to begin with. Despite the wraps, he didn't look good on any other criteria also.

And I wasn't part of this forum on that day. If I was, you would have sure heard about it from me -- before he was beaten by the supposed superhorse.

Frankel runs Leriod with bar shoes to pick up a place check in the BC mile last year. Knows the horse has a foot injury but he and NYRA play the game and dupe the bettor. That horse should have been scratched or run for purse only. That was an ugly thing to do to the bettor. And you're saying the same thing couldn't have been done with Bluegrass Cat in the Travers?

Wake up and smell the coffee. Or if you can't smell the coffee, then smell the money being passed under the table.[/QUOTE]

AMEN!! Thanks Todko. God Forbid Pope Pletcher does any of that!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by todko

I jumped right off seeing the wraps. And to see the fractions in that race leads me to believe the horse wasn't right to begin with. Despite the wraps, he didn't look good on any other criteria also.

And I wasn't part of this forum on that day. If I was, you would have sure heard about it from me -- before he was beaten by the supposed superhorse.

Frankel runs Leriod with bar shoes to pick up a place check in the BC mile last year. Knows the horse has a foot injury but he and NYRA play the game and dupe the bettor. That horse should have been scratched or run for purse only. That was an ugly thing to do to the bettor. And you're saying the same thing couldn't have been done with Bluegrass Cat in the Travers?

Wake up and smell the coffee. Or if you can't smell the coffee, then smell the money being passed under the table.

everyone knew leroi wasn't at his best last year, anyone who chose to bet him regardless have only themselves to blame.
also, regarding bluegrass, anyone who kept up with the sport in the weeks leading up to the travers knew todd wasn't thrilled with running bluegrass back so quickly after his haskell....anyone could read between the lines.

you're the only one to respond so far that you were skeptical beforehand when you saw the front wraps---my issue is with those who only speak up AFTER, when we should have all 'KNOWN IT ALL ALONG'. easy to say after the fact.
also, like i said above, i've seen horses run with front wraps for the first time and come back to get the trophy and check.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

everyone knew leroi wasn't at his best last year, anyone who chose to bet him regardless have only themselves to blame.
also, regarding bluegrass, anyone who kept up with the sport in the weeks leading up to the travers knew todd wasn't thrilled with running bluegrass back so quickly after his haskell....anyone could read between the lines.

you're the only one to respond so far that you were skeptical beforehand when you saw the front wraps---my issue is with those who only speak up AFTER, when we should have all 'KNOWN IT ALL ALONG'. easy to say after the fact.
also, like i said above, i've seen horses run with front wraps for the first time and come back to get the trophy and check.

Zieg don't you know that the owner and trainer who have kicked up all teh cash to buy and race a horse like Leroi should always consider some guy betting 5 bucks at an OTB before racing a horse who gets 2nd place and earns a ton of cash and secures his eclipse award by showing such gameness and talent despite everyone having the full knowledge before the race that the horse has a foot that needs a bar shoe?
This is insanity. It was fully disclosed and Frankel did a masterful job getting the horse to the race and running 2nd with it. The horse was not adversely affected, and gave a very good performance.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Todko was the first to mention the wraps being on BC after the race. I know because we got into an argument about how BC would have beaten Bernardini had he not been injured. I didn't bring it up, and was glad that someone else caught the fact about the wraps which clearly indicated that he was having problems before the race.

Also, all everyone heard of before the Travers from TP was how great BC was doing and how ready he was to run a maximum effort. TP acted like he had the horse ready to run the race of his life. That is why a lot of people picked him against the great Bernardini. The only thing that TP voiced concerns about was the quick turn around.

Don't get me wrong. I think that TP is one of the best trainers out there, but he pushes his horses plain and simple. Of course, all of them do, and I know they have to push these horses. Been there, done that...just in the show world.

Also, for the record, I don't think that a completely healthy BC could have ever come anywhere near Bernardini.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleind...e.asp?id=34783

Blue Eyes, Ky, Todko read away. Note who was calling the shots.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by oracle80

http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleind...e.asp?id=34783

Blue Eyes, Ky, Todko read away. Note who was calling the shots.

Again oracle, I was never blaming EW or TP for trying to get one more race out of the horse. I would have done the same thing. It is all part of the game.

[todko]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

everyone knew leroi wasn't at his best last year, anyone who chose to bet him regardless have only themselves to blame.
also, regarding bluegrass, anyone who kept up with the sport in the weeks leading up to the travers knew todd wasn't thrilled with running bluegrass back so quickly after his haskell....anyone could read between the lines.

you're the only one to respond so far that you were skeptical beforehand when you saw the front wraps---my issue is with those who only speak up AFTER, when we should have all 'KNOWN IT ALL ALONG'. easy to say after the fact.
also, like i said above, i've seen horses run with front wraps for the first time and come back to get the trophy and check.

Frank Lyons didn't know it! He said clearly on TVG in an argument with Tom Amoss when Amoss brought up the bar shoes on Leroi that, "no way would Frankel ever race Leroi with bar shoes. No way." And then he proceeded to lecture Tom Amoss on how a bar shoe works. He said something to the effect that Leroi was fine and the bar shoes were precautionary for training and that a horse couldn't get traction on turf with bar shoes (which most of us know).

Amoss realized he was getting no where fast and just encouraged the viewer to look for the bar shoes and pads on race day.

Leroi took a huge amount of money that day. Not everyone knew he wasn't at his best -- if they did why the money bet?

I wrote those scum sucking pimps at NYRA about it and never heard back.

Never heard Frank Lyons apologize on TVG either.

Listen to Amoss when he's on the air. He made a great call on Balance in the KY Oaks that she wouldn't run a lick. She didn't. Amoss said Ermine looked good, he was ridiculed by Frank and the gang. Ermine ran a solid 2nd, well ahead of Balance.

Originally Posted by todko

Frank Lyons didn't know it! He said clearly on TVG in an argument with Tom Amoss when Amoss brought up the bar shoes on Leroi that, "no way would Frankel ever race Leroi with bar shoes. No way." And then he proceeded to lecture Tom Amoss on how a bar shoe works. He said something to the effect that Leroi was fine and the bar shoes were precautionary for training and that a horse couldn't get traction on turf with bar shoes (which most of us know).

Amoss realized he was getting no where fast and just encouraged the viewer to look for the bar shoes and pads on race day.

Leroi took a huge amount of money that day. Not everyone knew he wasn't at his best -- if they did why the money bet?

I wrote those scum sucking pimps at NYRA about it and never heard back.

Never heard Frank Lyons apologize on TVG either.

Listen to Amoss when he's on the air. He made a great call on Balance in the KY Oaks that she wouldn't run a lick. She didn't. Amoss said Ermine looked good, he was ridiculed by Frank and the gang. Ermine ran a solid 2nd, well ahead of Balance.

Empire Maker ran all spring, before the Derby in bar shoes. I remember seeing a great shot of him (on DRF cover) rearing, and lo' and behold dere dem baw shoes was a shinin'.
Medaglia D'Oro had bad feet.
Leroid had 'em.
Megahertz had bad feet. No?
Didn't Sightseek???
I'm starting to see a pattern here....

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by todko

Frank Lyons didn't know it! He said clearly on TVG in an argument with Tom Amoss when Amoss brought up the bar shoes on Leroi that, "no way would Frankel ever race Leroi with bar shoes. No way." And then he proceeded to lecture Tom Amoss on how a bar shoe works. He said something to the effect that Leroi was fine and the bar shoes were precautionary for training and that a horse couldn't get traction on turf with bar shoes (which most of us know).

Amoss realized he was getting no where fast and just encouraged the viewer to look for the bar shoes and pads on race day.

Leroi took a huge amount of money that day. Not everyone knew he wasn't at his best -- if they did why the money bet?

I wrote those scum sucking pimps at NYRA about it and never heard back.

Never heard Frank Lyons apologize on TVG either.

Listen to Amoss when he's on the air. He made a great call on Balance in the KY Oaks that she wouldn't run a lick. She didn't. Amoss said Ermine looked good, he was ridiculed by Frank and the gang. Ermine ran a solid 2nd, well ahead of Balance.

Dang! Old Blue Eyes beat me to EMPIRE MAKER!!!
Back to work!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by todko

Frank Lyons didn't know it! He said clearly on TVG in an argument with Tom Amoss when Amoss brought up the bar shoes on Leroi that, "no way would Frankel ever race Leroi with bar shoes. No way." And then he proceeded to lecture Tom Amoss on how a bar shoe works. He said something to the effect that Leroi was fine and the bar shoes were precautionary for training and that a horse couldn't get traction on turf with bar shoes (which most of us know).

Amoss realized he was getting no where fast and just encouraged the viewer to look for the bar shoes and pads on race day.

Leroi took a huge amount of money that day. Not everyone knew he wasn't at his best -- if they did why the money bet?

I wrote those scum sucking pimps at NYRA about it and never heard back.

Never heard Frank Lyons apologize on TVG either.

Listen to Amoss when he's on the air. He made a great call on Balance in the KY Oaks that she wouldn't run a lick. She didn't. Amoss said Ermine looked good, he was ridiculed by Frank and the gang. Ermine ran a solid 2nd, well ahead of Balance.

well, i know that those of us posting on the 'other' board were talking about leroi and his status for several days leading up to the race. there was plenty of discussion about him and his feet. no doubt many who bet him either were skeptical about the news that he had poor feet, thought he wasn't that bad, thought he was good enough to win anyway, or maybe just fans who bet frankel, or heard of leroi, or liked the silks (they're so purty)....who knows why people bet the way they do?? i can't explain it. but if i, who isn't 'in the know' and doesn't hang out at the track, and doesn't have any trainers on speed dial, knew that leroi was not 100%, than i would fully expect that the info was available to anyone able to type out 'www.drf dot com' on their computer! the stories were there.
hell, people smoke when they know it's a killer, so why not put a couple down on leroi?!

[quote=oracle80]

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

Lemme tell you something. Todd is not only very smart and a master at his craft, but very professional as well.
Ever deal with him on anything? He as professional as they come. Lemme guess, if you had his stock you would do even better, and hes just lucky, blah blah blah. What a joke.

Lemme tell you something, I never said the man wasn't a good trainer. He trains just like his mentor. Hard. He gets results for his owners. Win. No owner wants to lay a horse up for 9 months. Lukas rarely lays a horse up. Same goes for Pletcher. Strike while the iron is hot, cause when it comes back from off the farm you're gettin' it back luke warm most the time. They know that's the case so they don't bother with the lay ups.
BTW, "rumor" is that BC did run down in his left front before his last race (don't know if in a work or his race before). Does anyone remember which hind leg was injured? I don't remember, (didn't pay much attention), but my guess would be diagonal from front left - right hind.

[quote=Blue Eyes]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Lemme tell you something, I never said the man wasn't a good trainer. He trains just like his mentor. Hard. He gets results for his owners. Win. No owner wants to lay a horse up for 9 months. Lukas rarely lays a horse up. Same goes for Pletcher. Strike while the iron is hot, cause when it comes back from off the farm you're gettin' it back luke warm most the time. They know that's the case so they don't bother with the lay ups.
BTW, "rumor" is that BC did run down in his left front before his last race (don't know if in a work or his race before). Does anyone remember which hind leg was injured? I don't remember, (didn't pay much attention), but my guess would be diagonal from front left - right hind.

Everyone knows it was the right hind.
And excuse me for finding it hard to believe that you didn't pay attention to this, while paying such in depth attention to every other aspect of the situation.

[quote=oracle80]

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

Everyone knows it was the right hind.
And excuse me for finding it hard to believe that you didn't pay attention to this, while paying such in depth attention to every other aspect of the situation.

Actually, I don't/didn't pay much attention. Honestly, I didn't really follow BC and could only tell you one race that he won. (That's how much I paid attention to him.)

[quote=Blue Eyes]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Lemme tell you something, I never said the man wasn't a good trainer. He trains just like his mentor. Hard. He gets results for his owners. Win. No owner wants to lay a horse up for 9 months. Lukas rarely lays a horse up. Same goes for Pletcher. Strike while the iron is hot, cause when it comes back from off the farm you're gettin' it back luke warm most the time. They know that's the case so they don't bother with the lay ups.
BTW, "rumor" is that BC did run down in his left front before his last race (don't know if in a work or his race before). Does anyone remember which hind leg was injured? I don't remember, (didn't pay much attention), but my guess would be diagonal from front left - right hind.

In addition Todd lays up many horses, and his win % is extremely high in those situations.

[quote=oracle80]

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

In addition Todd lays up many horses, and his win % is extremely high in those situations.

Name me some of his returning stakes winners. I don't pay attention to his horses.

[quote=Blue Eyes]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Name me some of his returning stakes winners. I don't pay attention to his horses.

You don't pay attention yet you are an encyclopedia on Bluegrass cat and exactly what his problems were?
Pardon me for finding that funny.