Do you take pedigree into account?

[pmayjr]

I agree with paisjpg-
It should be taken into account for first turf, and somewhat for maiden races.

But even in Maiden races, look at trainer stats with maidens, first-time starters, 2nd starts, etc etc more than the pedigree.

[sumitas]

Pedigree rules for first timers. For 3 year olds it says a lot about whether they can get a distance. Especially the Belmont.

Instead of just breeding the best with the best and getting a lot of crap, a serious mating produces a much higher rate of success. By serious I mean at least the first 5 gens and the linebreeding chart for 9 gens. A good student of pedigree can separate the wheat from the chaff in a lot of instances.

[Thunder Gulch]

Pedigree figures in my handicapping prominently for lightly raced horses and surface/ distance changes. Other than those specific situations, I give it only a glance.

I know too much about genetics to see the horrible fallacies associated with pedigree handicapping. If someday the horse genome is mapped and we got genes associated with particular traits that we know aid running ability in someway, then I would be more comfortable. Otherwise, crapshoot. You got to look at a horse doing what they are supposed to do, RUN. You dont need to know what granmammy did on the track unless you are desperate.

Again I believe this is a British Royality hold over pile o crap. My daddy was a Duke. So what.

[Pedigree Ann]

So if you see a first time starter, you don't check whether his sire gets a high percentage of first out winners or not? You don't care if he is by Carson City (18% first out, speed sire) or by Deputy Commander (4% first out, distance sire)? . I am a statistician and understand that for all the breed's variability, different strains of the breed have well-defined proclivities, as reflected in accumlated statistics. If you have a Meadowlake out of a Mt. Livermore mare you will expect a precocious, speedy sprinter/miler; a Kingmambo out of a Lord at War mare would be expected to excell over a distance of ground, probably on turf, and likely to be later maturing.

[Linny]

Any time a horse is asked to do something new, I look at pedigree. Certain stallions seem to sire horses with a distinct set of talents. Mud, grass, "win early", route abilities all seem to be carried by sires. Does every Carson City love mud? Nope. But the odds are better that a CC will mud than many other sires.

I obviously love all things Slew, so I pay attention to just that line in terms of pedigree. Beyond that, I look at what the horse has actually done. It just so happens that two of the top horses are Slews, so it is rewarding for me personally; it is not rewarding financially, however. What can I collect on Bernardini and Lava Man!

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

HOGWASH and HOGWASH................

LOL, so you probably play the jockeys...to that i say BULLCRAP, LOL.

[Thunder Gulch]

The best thing about pedigree as a factor is that it is not used by the masses, so spot plays can bring better prices.

[SentToStud]

Yes, I use it, especially for unraced/lightly raced and turf and off-tracks.

I pay as much attention to broodmare stats as sire stats. Youbet.com has a pretty nice package on this. I find it useful.

[ELA]

So, here's a question -- and it might be a stupid one. Why is it that in the harness game, breeding/pedigree (and the related stats) has nothing to do with gambling on two year old races, first time starters, etc.?

Now harness racing of course has a universal race distance. But you never hear a harness handicapper say "Well, Artsplace offspring win at 15% first time out" or something along those lines. I have heard people say that a particular stallion throws speed, his two year olds get going early, etc. but it has much less meaning.

Thank you.

Eric

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by ELA

So, here's a question -- and it might be a stupid one. Why is it that in the harness game, breeding/pedigree (and the related stats) has nothing to do with gambling on two year old races, first time starters, etc.?

Now harness racing of course has a universal race distance. But you never hear a harness handicapper say "Well, Artsplace offspring win at 15% first time out" or something along those lines. I have heard people say that a particular stallion throws speed, his two year olds get going early, etc. but it has much less meaning.

Thank you.

Eric

Aside from a fairly infrequent drunken venture into Pompano Park when I have mistaken it for either a hospital Emergency Room or a Taco Bell, I don't follow harness racing very much. But I do know all the horses must run qualifying races. So, there is some "form" behind a harness horse the first time it's entered. Maybe that's why. I would guess, even so, that the first starters of a successful stallion are, all things equal, more attratcive and shorter-priced than those of less fashionablr sires.