Oracle thanks for mushing Circular Quay

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Oh geez, the friend's brother again. Look he hasn't been right about two things out 200 hes predicted since we had the pleasureof making his 2nd hand acquaintance. Lets just say if he takes the high road, I'm taking the low road. If he orders the Steak, I'm ordering the Chicken, and if I board a plane and see him on it I'm running off that thing just as fast as my legs can carry me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As far as attendance goes, its a joke. Ny offers racing 300 days a year, its not a novelty. Keeneland is a track in a state thats based upon horse racing in the city most based up on racing.
Its only common sense that when they havea 3 week fall meet with good fields that attendance is gonna be high. If you think those people went out to see polytrack, rather than to enjoy the wine, women, and racing, then you really don't have any idea what you are talking about.

George Washington knows the business just a little. You need to stop making everything personal though and answer questions. It seems like whenever you are wrong you make personal attacks.

You have not made one good argument against polytrack. All I have read from trainers is that they like it. Todd Pletcher is moving horses to CA to run on it and he sent his top 2yr old to run on it this weekend, when he could have run him in NY this weekend.

Obviously, people who live off the sheets don't like it, because it makes it more difficult to find races to bet. Why don't you just admit you have an agenda and it is you making money? There is nothing wrong with admitting that.

[lemoncrush]

We can argue for or against Polytrack until we're blue in the face, but nothing will be solved until we have more race history on this surface.
I don't like it at all personally, but what do we really have to go on besides what we've seen at Turfway, and opening weekend at Keenland?
The biggest races ever ran on polytrack prior to last weekend was..I guess the Lane's End last March.
Until we see several Graded stakes on this surface, it's hard to gauge.
If we saw horses like Ghostzapper, Afleet Alex and St. Liam struggle on poly, and win everwhere else, it would be easy to draw a conclusion.
But they never ran on it.
For me, I'll need to see Grade 1 calibur horses in their prime run over the surface and perform similar, or just as well as they do on dirt, before I become even a moderate fan of polytrack.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Revolution

George Washington knows the business just a little. You need to stop making everything personal though and answer questions. It seems like whenever you are wrong you make personal attacks.

You have not made one good argument against polytrack. All I have read from trainers is that they like it. Todd Pletcher is moving horses to CA to run on it and he sent his top 2yr old to run on it this weekend, when he could have run him in NY this weekend.

Obviously, people who live off the sheets don't like it, because it makes it more difficult to find races to bet. Why don't you just admit you have an agenda and it is you making money? There is nothing wrong with admitting that.

Polytrack will change the horse racing world PERIOD. I don't think it has as much to do with making money as it does the fact that the business is being drastically changed. Some people don't just roll over when things like this happen... it takes an adjustment period. Until you can learn to make your own decisions (without consulting your "friend's brother"), perhaps you should keep your mouth shut about it. Let me know when you've made up your own mind about it.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Polytrack will change the horse racing world PERIOD. I don't think it has as much to do with making money as it does the fact that the business is being drastically changed. Some people don't just roll over when things like this happen... it takes an adjustment period. Until you can learn to make your own decisions (without consulting your "friend's brother"), perhaps you should keep your mouth shut about it. Let me know when you've made up your own mind about it.

I do make my own decisions. I was just telling you that he said Aqueduct and Belmont will have tracks with the surfaces soon enough. And saying it doesn't have much to do with making money is naive. Everything in horse racing is about money. Everything.

Don't ever tell me to keep my mouth shut either. I am allowed ot have an opinion.

Originally Posted by Revolution

I do make my own decisions. I was just telling you that he said Aqueduct and Belmont will have tracks with the surfaces soon enough. And saying it doesn't have much to do with making money is naive. Everything in horse racing is about money. Everything.

Don't ever tell me to keep my mouth shut either. Get some class.

I think it's about the health of the horse.

Now shut yo mouf!

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I think it's about the health of the horse.

Now shut yo mouf!

Healthy horses run more often and have cheaper vet bills. It is about money. If it was all about health of horses, maybe you should spend some time at the racetrack and explain to me what happens to horses when they are no longer healthy enough to race. If you don't know, perhaps you should just keep your head in the clouds. Horse racing is a business. Nothing else.

Originally Posted by Revolution

Healthy horses run more often and have cheaper vet bills. It is about money. If it was all about health of horses, maybe you should spend some time at the racetrack and explain to me what happens to horses when they are no longer healthy enough to race. If you don't know, perhaps you should just keep your head in the clouds. Horse racing is a business. Nothing else.

Hey genius. If it wasn't for horses breaking down then polytrack and it's competitors wouldn't be considered by track management. Thus, the number one reason for the installation is exactly what I stated. Of course cost cutting was considered, but you act like it's the primary reason and that simply isn't the case.

Like Keeneland is desperately looking at ways to save money.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Hey genius. If it wasn't for horses breaking down then polytrack and it's competitors wouldn't be considered by track management. Thus, the number one reason for the installation is exactly what I stated. Of course cost cutting was considered, but you act like it's the primary reason and that simply isn't the case.

Like Keeneland is desperately looking at ways to save money.

Keeneland owns 50% of the company that owns polytrack. It is awesome that is saves horses, but it was all about money. The injuries are bad for pr and the amount of races cancelled at places like turfway were a big factor.

Polytrack has been in europe for some time, and like everything else, horse racing is going through it's globalization. They are trying to get the top horses from the world to compete against each other more regularly. Polytrack was the only hope. Turf horses run fine over it.

You don't need to call me names either. If you don't like my friend that doesn't mean I am like that. I stick to horse racing.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I think it's about the health of the horse.

Now shut yo mouf!

Pillow its about money, and nothing more.
The health is just an excuse. They could have installed a deeper base and harrowed the surface deeper and had the same results years ago. But there wasn't 8-10 million in some truckloads of dirt and the guy harrowing the track deeper. You aren't really that naiive are you?

Originally Posted by oracle80

Pillow its about money, and nothing more.
The health is just an excuse. They could have installed a deeper base and harrowed the surface deeper and had the same results years ago. But there wasn't 8-10 million in some truckloads of dirt and the guy harrowing the track deeper. You aren't really that naiive are you?

I already explained myself and i'm correct and you're wrong.

[Pointg5]

The reason the attendance was so high was because of 2 factors:

1) Near perfect weather for October

2) It was Homecoming for University of Kentucky, if you remember they played Florida on ESPN Saturday night,

It was a perfect storm, not the Poly Track...

I was in Lexington last weekend for a Wedding for one of my wife's friends, we see most of these people twice a year at Keeneland. I love Keeneland, I handicap the night before, made all of my selections the night before, handicapped the races for speed and non-speed, so all I had to do was watch the races and see which way the track was going. Then I would spend all day hanging out with them. You know what's funny, they all asked me when I was coming down and I said I was boycotting Keeneland, you should have seen their jaws hit the ground, because they know I am a nut for Keeneland. When I told them I wasn't going, because of the Poly Track, not one of them, knew about the Poly Track, so it wasn't because of the Poly Track.

The good thing is the money I am saving from not going to Keeneland I am taking and going to Saratoga next year...

[Pointg5]

I mean they played South Carolina, not Florida, still can't get it straight that the old ball coach isn't at Florida....

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

I mean they played South Carolina, not Florida, still can't get it straight that the old ball coach isn't at Florida....

Tell me about it... I think I'm going to the Florida vs. South Carolina game in the Swamp next month and it will be weird seeing Spurrier on Florida field in different colors!

Originally Posted by Revolution

George Washington knows the business just a little. You need to stop making everything personal though and answer questions. It seems like whenever you are wrong you make personal attacks.

You have not made one good argument against polytrack. All I have read from trainers is that they like it. Todd Pletcher is moving horses to CA to run on it and he sent his top 2yr old to run on it this weekend, when he could have run him in NY this weekend.

Obviously, people who live off the sheets don't like it, because it makes it more difficult to find races to bet. Why don't you just admit you have an agenda and it is you making money? There is nothing wrong with admitting that.

Look,
It doesn't bother me one bit to pass races run on poly, betting is not how I make my living.
Todd is moving them for purse structure and available spots, not poly you goofball. Only one short meet at Hollywood will be run on Poly. Hes staying out for four months after that to run at SA which is on dirt.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Look,
It doesn't bother me one bit to pass races run on poly, betting is not how I make my living.
Todd is moving them for purse structure and available spots, not poly you goofball. Only one short meet at Hollywood will be run on Poly. Hes staying out for four months after that to run at SA which is on dirt.

I read he was going there because of polytrack, but you probably know more about it than me.

Originally Posted by Revolution

I read he was going there because of polytrack, but you probably know more about it than me.

Why would you go across the country for polytrack for 5 months when 4 of the months are gonna be conducted on dirt?
hes got a lotta horses sitting on condition races and a deep grass stable. SA has much higher purses than Gulf does and many more MSW and allowance condition races as well as a huge grass race schedule. Thats common sense.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Why would you go across the country for polytrack for 5 months when 4 of the months are gonna be conducted on dirt?
hes got a lotta horses sitting on condition races and a deep grass stable. SA has much higher purses than Gulf does and many more MSW and allowance condition races as well as a huge grass race schedule. Thats common sense.

The better question is...

Would he go if there wasn't a poly surface to train on?

I say no. What say you?

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

The better question is...

Would he go if there wasn't a poly surface to train on?

I say no. What say you?

Pillow there isn't any doubt he would go anyway.
Look, Gulf has had horrendous weekday cards that the trainers have marched in and complained about the last two years. I believe Frankel was the most vocal about it.
The slots will change that at some point, but as for now its awful. They hav a lack of allowance races for guys with horses sitting on conditions and MSW's as well.
Purses are higher there as well and in addition Pletcher is loaded with grass horses in the stakes division and would have to run them against each other at Gulf in the limited opportunities they offer.
It just makes sense.

[2MinsToPost]

Mike,

Could you share any info in the expense of a track like Kee changing their dirt surface to make it deeper, etc versus the install of poly? I am curious because I would, as a fan and I am sure the owners etc feel the same way (?) would prefer a NATURAL SURFACE versus a polytrack. Thanks if you know.

CP

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

Mike,

Could you share any info in the expense of a track like Kee changing their dirt surface to make it deeper, etc versus the install of poly? I am curious because I would, as a fan and I am sure the owners etc feel the same way (?) would prefer a NATURAL SURFACE versus a polytrack. Thanks if you know.

CP

Well I'm sure since keeneland owns half the company that makes Poly, that the expense is a lot less than it would be if you pay to have a poly surface installed wholesale. The numbers I hear tossed out are anywhere from 8-10 mill to have a poly type surface installed.
No way could Keeneland not use the surface, since they own half the company who makes it. What kind of advertising would that be if they didn't?

My take is that horse health only became a concern when someone could make money on selling a surface for this much cash.
Darrell Vienna wondered aloud after Cali said all tracks would go to Poly "why can't we just have a safer dirt track?". I think many others have wondered the same thing.
Trainers have been complaining for years about juiced up tracks on big race days that produce incredible fractions and sore horses.
Its not rocket science to install a deeper cushion and put some deeper soil or loam out there on top. Then you harrow it deeper and don't water the **** out of it all day long producing concrete.
The cost of doing this compared to Poly installation is minimal. But noone would make any cash, or get any gratuities for their help in choosing it.
I wonder how many Cali lawmakers who voted on this got contributions from these companies? I'd love to see that info!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!