Secretariat Vs. Spectacular Bid

Originally Posted by oracle80

Both would have tossed around Bern like a rag doll, hows that?

My only historical evlauation of Bernardini is ...

... IF he wins the BC Classic in compelling fashion ... easily by open lengths ...

... THEN ... his 3YO campaign would rank with that of any 3YO ... other than Secretariat, Citation, or Man O' War.

Do you dispute that?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

My only historical evlauation of Bernardini is ...

... IF he wins the BC Classic in compelling fashion ... easily by open lengths ...

... THEN ... his 3YO campaign would rank with that of any 3YO ... other than Secretariat, Citation, or Man O' War.

Do you dispute that?

What? You can't be serious.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

My only historical evlauation of Bernardini is ...

... IF he wins the BC Classic in compelling fashion ... easily by open lengths ...

... THEN ... his 3YO campaign would rank with that of any 3YO ... other than Secretariat, Citation, or Man O' War.

Do you dispute that?

you could compare him to affirmed?? he only had to keep beating alydar. or what about the three year olds in one glorious year--bold ruler, round table, gallant man, and iron liege. a derby for the ages there, how many year end titles went to those few horses?? what about war admiral? or count fleet? you're asking a lot of bernardini....better than all those who came before, except those three??? where's the bid? what about all those tc winners? surely they would all go ahead. or swaps and nashua..tough nuts to crack, when many could and would argue that bernardini wasn't the best of this years crop!

[The Bid]

Bernardini isnt in the same breath as Spectacular Bid, yet. I would put him on par with a horse like Ghostzapper, as of right now. After he wins the BCC against older horses, after he gallops home under a strangle hold, then and only then will anyone realize what a freak he is.

[Danzig]

i think everyone has him on a 'potential freak' list. just some aren't quite so ready to award the prize yet.

just had this thought after i hit the 'send' button....a lot of people, myself included, thought lost in the fog would have his coming of age party around this time last year. he, or flower alley, was the choice of many for the bc laurels... we all know how that turned out. fog had a tremendous year. one that dreams are made of. we all know what can happen, and all to often does.
i'd love to see a really, really good horse show his stuff. wouldn't break my heart one bit to see bernie tear up the churchill strip.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i think everyone has him on a 'potential freak' list. just some aren't quite so ready to award the prize yet.

Discreet Cat is the freak. Can't wait for the Cigar.

[Danzig]

see, that's the thing..unlike bernardini, when discreet cat faced lesser opposition, that joker took on the clock and won....fastest 6 f for the entire saratoga meet. and that was his first start back. unreal stuff there.
bernie has been named the best this year, one of the best ever--and he may not even be the best in his OWN BARN.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

see, that's the thing..unlike bernardini, when discreet cat faced lesser opposition, that joker took on the clock and won....fastest 6 f for the entire saratoga meet. and that was his first start back. unreal stuff there.
bernie has been named the best this year, one of the best ever--and he may not even be the best in his OWN BARN.

Fastest 7 furlongs, not 6 I believe.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

just had this thought after i hit the 'send' button....a lot of people, myself included, thought lost in the fog would have his coming of age party around this time last year.

Ten days before the 2005 BC Sprint ... I publicly assured everyone that Lost In The Fog would finish off the board.

If you had seen and paid attention to that post ... you would have called the caterer ... and cancelled the party.

RIP Lost In The Fog ... you did your best every time they put you in a starting gate ... and that's all we can ask for.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Ten days before the 2005 BC Sprint ... I publicly assured everyone that Lost In The Fog would finish off the board.

If you had seen and paid attention to that post ... you would have called the caterer ... and cancelled the party.

RIP Lost In The Fog ... you did your best every time they put you in a starting gate ... and that's all we can ask for.

So did a lot of people on this board. In fact, the press about LITF wasn't that dissimilar to that of Bernie? Hmmm.....

Originally Posted by randallscott35

So did a lot of people on this board. In fact, the press about LITF wasn't that dissimilar to that of Bernie? Hmmm.....

On the "other" board ... the goo-goos had Lost In The Fog being greater than Hindoo, Domino, Roseben, Bold Ruler, Dr. Fager, and Ghostzapper combined.

I'm glad the people here were more sensible ... I wish I had known then what I know now about thoroughbred racing forums.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

you could compare him to affirmed?? he only had to keep beating alydar. or what about the three year olds in one glorious year--bold ruler, round table, gallant man, and iron liege. a derby for the ages there, how many year end titles went to those few horses?? what about war admiral? or count fleet? you're asking a lot of bernardini....better than all those who came before, except those three??? where's the bid? what about all those tc winners? surely they would all go ahead. or swaps and nashua..tough nuts to crack, when many could and would argue that bernardini wasn't the best of this years crop!

Let's take them one-by-one ...

Affirmed tailed off at the end of his 3YO season ... he lost his last two races ... to be sure to a great 4YO and with a slipped saddle ... but losses nonetheless.

The 1954 colt crop was the greatest ever ... and I started following thoroughbred racing in 1957 because of them ... but all of those great horses had significant limitations as 3YOS ... Bold Ruler wouldn't rate and could be beaten by throwing a rabbit at him ... Gallant Man needed to close off a fast pace and barely managed to beat Bureaucracy in the Travers and Dedicate in the Nassau County when the pace was slow. Both Bold Ruler and Gallant Man were defeated at scale weight by the older Dedicate in the Woodward. And Round Table didn't come close to winning his two most important races as a 3YO ... the Kentucky Derby and the Trenton Handicap.

War Admiral was sensational as a 3YO ... but he didn't set track records or win by the open lengths that Bernardini has.

Count Fleet was retired after the Belmont Stakes and never had to face a really good horse. He beat up regularly on Blue Swords ... and there was virtually nothing behind that one. This was during the depths of WWII ... when it looked like Germany and Japan were invincible ... and most everyone ... including owners, trainers, and jockeys ... were putting their time into the war effort ... not horse racing.

Look at the actual records ... and you'll agree that IF Bernardini puts in another exceptional race in the BC Classic ... his 3YO record will be as good as any but the very, very best.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Let's take them one-by-one ...

Affirmed tailed off at the end of his 3YO season ... he lost his last two races ... to be sure to a great 4YO and with a slipped saddle ... but losses nonetheless.

The 1954 colt crop was the greatest ever ... and I started following thoroughbred racing in 1957 because of them ... but all of those great horses had significant limitations as 3YOS ... Bold Ruler wouldn't rate and could be beaten by throwing a rabbit at him ... Gallant Man needed to close off a fast pace and barely managed to beat Bureaucracy in the Travers and Dedicate in the Nassau County when the pace was slow. Both Bold Ruler and Gallant Man were defeated at scale weight by the older Dedicate in the Woodward. And Round Table didn't come close to winning his two most important races as a 3YO ... the Kentucky Derby and the Trenton Handicap.

War Admiral was sensational as a 3YO ... but he didn't set track records or win by the open lengths that Bernardini has.

Count Fleet was retired after the Belmont Stakes and never had to face a really good horse. He beat up regularly on Blue Swords ... and there was virtually nothing behind that one. This was during the depths of WWII ... when it looked like Germany and Japan were invincible ... and most everyone ... including owners, trainers, and jockeys ... were putting their time into the war effort ... not horse racing.

Look at the actual records ... and you'll agree that IF Bernardini puts in another exceptional race in the BC Classic ... his 3YO record will be as good as any but the very, very best.

In the words of Mugatu in Zoolander, "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills." Give me a 4 yr old season or give me death.

We should start a petition to send to the oil boys over there to keep him in training. How many signers could we get?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Let's take them one-by-one ...

Affirmed tailed off at the end of his 3YO season ... he lost his last two races ... to be sure to a great 4YO and with a slipped saddle ... but losses nonetheless.

The 1954 colt crop was the greatest ever ... and I started following thoroughbred racing in 1957 because of them ... but all of those great horses had significant limitations as 3YOS ... Bold Ruler wouldn't rate and could be beaten by throwing a rabbit at him ... Gallant Man needed to close off a fast pace and barely managed to beat Bureaucracy in the Travers and Dedicate in the Nassau County when the pace was slow. Both Bold Ruler and Gallant Man were defeated at scale weight by the older Dedicate in the Woodward. And Round Table didn't come close to winning his two most important races as a 3YO ... the Kentucky Derby and the Trenton Handicap.

War Admiral was sensational as a 3YO ... but he didn't set track records or win by the open lengths that Bernardini has.

Count Fleet was retired after the Belmont Stakes and never had to face a really good horse. He beat up regularly on Blue Swords ... and there was virtually nothing behind that one. This was during the depths of WWII ... when it looked like Germany and Japan were invincible ... and most everyone ... including owners, trainers, and jockeys ... were putting their time into the war effort ... not horse racing.

Look at the actual records ... and you'll agree that IF Bernardini puts in another exceptional race in the BC Classic ... his 3YO record will be as good as any but the very, very best.

---war admiral broke the belmont stakes record set 17 years prior by his old man, and equaled the american record for that distance--and this after grabbing a quarter leaving the gate. he was a perfect 8 for 8 that year.

then there's damascus, winner of the race of the century, as a three year old, over buckpasser and dr fager. all three are inside the top 20 racehorses of the 20th century. he also won the travers by 22 lengths, tying the track record with buckpasser!
count fleet may not have had competition, so he raced record books and the clock. his 25 length victory in the belmont was surpassed only by secretariats, and he set a stakes record in that race to boot.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

---war admiral broke the belmont stakes record set 17 years prior by his old man, and equaled the american record for that distance--and this after grabbing a quarter leaving the gate. he was a perfect 8 for 8 that year.

then there's damascus, winner of the race of the century, as a three year old, over buckpasser and dr fager. all three are inside the top 20 racehorses of the 20th century. he also won the travers by 22 lengths, tying the track record with buckpasser!
count fleet may not have had competition, so he raced record books and the clock. his 25 length victory in the belmont was surpassed only by secretariats, and he set a stakes record in that race to boot.

What marvelous race horses they all were ... thank God that Bernardini may be ending the 27-year drought that we've had since the last great one ... Spectacular Bid ... like those.