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#1
10-09-2006, 07:19 PM
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#2
10-09-2006, 07:19 PM
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#3
10-09-2006, 07:22 PM
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#4
10-09-2006, 07:23 PM
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#5
10-10-2006, 02:04 AM
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I have no freaking clue which one was better b/c they ran like 7 years apart and never faced each other.
I would tend to think SBid was a better 1 turn horse, but its just speculation. the debate, and the b/c of my age its the only one I find interesting, is who is the best dirt horse since Spectacular Bid. the common and probably safest answer would be Cigar. Its a valid response, but I would disagree. Mineshaft or Ghostzapper would get my vote. i have trouble placing Leading the Parade in a histortical perspective b/c I dont think his career is over yet. Repent
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#6
10-10-2006, 10:38 AM
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What I absolutely HATE is when people say that a horse is "not in the same class as so and so YET". That is the dumbest statement that can be made. If u think that if Bernardini wins the Classic the same way as he's been winning his other starts will put him into the all-time great conversation, wouldn't that mean that today, he's already there? What I mean is that the talent is already there. The only thing that he doesn't have yet are enough accomplishments. Some of u that base your arguments on what a horse accomplishes, yeah, I can understand your holding off on putting Bernardini into the conversation. But if he does end up doing the things u need to see him do in order to be moved up on your lists, it has to mean that the talent was there all along. If that's the case, what is so wrong with putting him up there now? It's like with Michael Jordan. It didn't take him winning six titles for me to realize that he was the greatest player I'd ever seen. I knew that after watching him play four years. Ability doesn't always have to be matched by accomplishments for me.
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The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#7
10-10-2006, 05:09 PM
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as for bernardini and withholding judgement. bernardini could conceivably stink up the track at churchill. not sure anyone really thinks that could happen, but it could happen. so you don't really know what this horse will be, as he's still showing us. when he's done, then you know. i mean, that would be like saying you know the ending of a movie, ,know that it's a classic, when you've only seen half or two thirds of it. you MIGHT know, but it would be speculation. so you watch to the end. sometimes at the end you say, hey that sucked. or sometimes the audience applauds! ah, you say, as you walk out with your shoes making sucking noises because some little brat spilled his coke and you walked thru it, i KNEW that was gonna happen!
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#8
10-10-2006, 01:33 PM
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I believe Shoemaker said that Spectacular Bid was the best he had ever ridden. Anyway, I agree with the posters who agree that it's very difficult, if not downright impossible to "prove" that 1 horse is better than another, unless they face the same horses. Even then, there are still fans who will argue for their favorite (like some Alydar fans might try to explain or excuse each of his loses to Affirmed). I think that we are lucky to see such great horses run. Whether Bernardini is going to be included in that select category depends on his connections. He seems to be special, but I would withhold annointing him until he wins against larger fields, meets and defeats opponents who challenge him, and sets records doing so.
By the way, my personal favorite is Secretariat.
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#9
10-10-2006, 02:03 PM
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... I agree with that assessment. The only other comparable 4YO campaigns were Bold Ruler in 1958 and Dr. Fager in 1968.
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#10
10-10-2006, 05:29 PM
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One of the things that is always overlooked is what Secretariat did on the grass.The Man O War was against Tentam who was considred and rightfully so the best grass horse in the country.The way Secretariat won that race (and i was there) made Elliot Burch the trainer of Tentam say i've seen enough.His 2nd race which was a Woodbine in a deluge with Eddie Maple up was again freaky.To run on that course in only the 2nd time on grass was mind boggling.They never tried Bid on the grass.They both were great and an argument can be made for both,but i'll always put Secretariat at the top of my list.
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