Polytrack devils advocates please respond

[SniperSB23]

Turf to poly wins again as Asi Siempre wins the Spinster. Happy Ticket checked bad in the stretch. I'm starting to enjoy this surface. It is kind of fun seeing turf horses and dirt horses square off on a track that plays to both.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Turf to poly wins again as Asi Siempre wins the Spinster. Happy Ticket checked bad in the stretch. I'm starting to enjoy this surface. It is kind of fun seeing turf horses and dirt horses square off on a track that plays to both.

My friend, u are watching the death of American dirt racing. U thought it was bad when the Europeans started coming over and dominating our grass racing? Now we are going to see many more grass horses taking our dirt races on this junk and that's going to mean more domination by the Europeans. I played Asi Siempre and Sharp Lisa simply because they had won graded stakes on the grass and Soul Search because she had won over this stuff at Turfway. Worked out pretty well. The fractions were pathetic here (50.50 for the half, 1:16.20 for 6f). It was a typical grass race. Someone sound taps.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

My friend, u are watching the death of American dirt racing. U thought it was bad when the Europeans started coming over and dominating our grass racing? Now we are going to see many more grass horses taking our dirt races on this junk and that's going to mean more domination by the Europeans. I played Asi Siempre and Sharp Lisa simply because they had won graded stakes on the grass and Soul Search because she had won over this stuff at Turfway. Worked out pretty well. The fractions were pathetic here (50.50 for the half, 1:16.20 for 6f). It was a typical grass race. Someone sound taps.

Blame the dirt horses for going way too slow and playing into the hands of the turf horses. This isn't the death of American racing. This is the rebirth. More Euro shippers is a good thing, not a bad one. I saw a pretty pathetic day of racing at Belmont on Saturday with short fields of chalky winners. If that is the state of American racing then I am all for the death of it.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Blame the dirt horses for going way too slow and playing into the hands of the turf horses. This isn't the death of American racing. This is the rebirth. More Euro shippers is a good thing, not a bad one. I saw a pretty pathetic day of racing at Belmont on Saturday with short fields of chalky winners. If that is the state of American racing then I am all for the death of it.

What you saw at Belmont was a bunch of scared connections watching from the sidelines while the Sheikhs, Pletcher and Zito cashed checks.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

What you saw at Belmont was a bunch of scared connections watching from the sidelines while the Sheikhs, Pletcher and Zito cashed checks.

All I know is that I was at what should have been the biggest day of racing on the year at Belmont and was looking at the simulcast screens and kinda wishing I was at Keeneland. I don't ever want to wish that again! I despise Keeneland.

[horse for the course]

I'm with Sniper King. It is way to early to say what kind of effect Polytrack will have. I love the idea of large fields and dirt and turf types knocking heads.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

My friend, u are watching the death of American dirt racing. U thought it was bad when the Europeans started coming over and dominating our grass racing? Now we are going to see many more grass horses taking our dirt races on this junk and that's going to mean more domination by the Europeans. I played Asi Siempre and Sharp Lisa simply because they had won graded stakes on the grass and Soul Search because she had won over this stuff at Turfway. Worked out pretty well. The fractions were pathetic here (50.50 for the half, 1:16.20 for 6f). It was a typical grass race. Someone sound taps.

Thanks for the good news King Glorious,
Four of mine trace to Round Table.
Guess I just stepped into somethin'.

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

Well Asi Siempre just won a Grade 1 polytrack race against Spun Sugar AND Happy Ticket...what a joke...

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by 1st_Saturday_in_May

Well Asi Siempre just won a Grade 1 polytrack race against Spun Sugar AND Happy Ticket...what a joke...

why is that a joke?

i will tell you what isn't a joke "Turfway Park reported a 23.6% increase from 2005 in all-source handle during the fall meeting that ended Oct. 5"

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by 1st_Saturday_in_May

Well Asi Siempre just won a Grade 1 polytrack race against Spun Sugar AND Happy Ticket...what a joke...

And it was her first start on the dirt. I see she is by El Prado out of a Silver Hawk mare. To u all that say that certain horses can't run on certain surfaces (I heard over and over that it was stupid to even try Dylan Thomas on the dirt because he's by Danehill), shouldn't this mean that Asi Siempre shouldn't run on the dirt?

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

And it was her first start on the dirt. I see she is by El Prado out of a Silver Hawk mare. To u all that say that certain horses can't run on certain surfaces (I heard over and over that it was stupid to even try Dylan Thomas on the dirt because he's by Danehill), shouldn't this mean that Asi Siempre shouldn't run on the dirt?

asi went off at 9-2. now all of the sudden $11 horses are a joke? it sounds like people that are losing gambling are using poly as an excuse. i think it is a great surface to handicap. the old keeneland was boring. speed speed speed.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Revolution

asi went off at 9-2. now all of the sudden $11 horses are a joke? it sounds like people that are losing gambling are using poly as an excuse. i think it is a great surface to handicap. the old keeneland was boring. speed speed speed.

I never said this was a joke. She was one of my top two choices to win the race (along with Sharp Lisa) based simply on the fact that she has had success on the grass. I didn't even bother handicapping the race. I just played the horses that had done well previously on grass or on Polytrack. Same thing with the Alcibiades the other day. When we actually will start having to handicap Keeneland is when there are 6-7 grass horses running on the stuff. Right now though, it's pretty easy.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

And it was her first start on the dirt. I see she is by El Prado out of a Silver Hawk mare. To u all that say that certain horses can't run on certain surfaces (I heard over and over that it was stupid to even try Dylan Thomas on the dirt because he's by Danehill), shouldn't this mean that Asi Siempre shouldn't run on the dirt?

It's not dirt though, it is polytrack, and poly is definitely playing to both turf and dirt horses.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It's not dirt though, it is polytrack, and poly is definitely playing to both turf and dirt horses.

nothing wrong with that. just factor it in when handicapping.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

And it was her first start on the dirt. I see she is by El Prado out of a Silver Hawk mare. To u all that say that certain horses can't run on certain surfaces (I heard over and over that it was stupid to even try Dylan Thomas on the dirt because he's by Danehill), shouldn't this mean that Asi Siempre shouldn't run on the dirt?

Danehill has NEVER had a good runner on dirt. El Prado has had Medaglia d'Oro, Borrego, Chindi, etc. Silver Hawk sired Hawkster (Norfolk S at Oak Tree, damsire of Afleet Alex), Dansil (Arkansas Derby), Silver Ending (Arkansas Derby, etc), and Zoonaqua (Oak Leaf S). Asi Siempre's third dam was a half-sister to Drone by dirt sire Bagdad whose daughter was sent to Ireland where she was a SW. Most of that one's foals were bred over there and had no chance to try dirt - it wasn't until she was quite old that she was brought to the US, and her later foals didn't run much; Asi Siempre's dam was unraced. The point being, there is nothing in this pedigree that says this horse can't run on dirt as well as turf.

[Pedigree Ann]

I think the key here is stamina. Horses who get by on their speed, like Summerly and Spun Sugar and, to a certain extent, Happy Ticket, have to work harder to keep going in front, even with those slow fractions. As a result, one will see more races that 'fall apart' late, with the speed stopping midstretch and horses from behind keeping on. Many turf horses are required to run at longer distances than dirt horses are these days (something I deplore, but I digress) so turf horses will tend to have developed more stamina.