Zenyatta to the Beldame after Saturday

[Danzig]

one thing i don't understand with all this talk of shipping...other horses who are aimed at several races on the east coast, stay on the east coast. they don't ship back and forth. lookin at lucky for instance, he's in saratoga. why can't they send zenyatta to new york, train her there, run her there, and then go to ky from there.

answer-because they don't want to. talk of all these races away from where she likes it best is just that, talk. her owners and trainer want her to go out undefeated. what's the best way to do that? keep doing exactly what they're doing.

[RockHardTen1985]

I know because all those AMAZING east coast fillies have shipped out to Cali to take all those G1's from Zenyatta, right?
Easy money according to Doug, why not ship out there and try to beat or at worse run second in how many G1's over the last 3 years?

[slotdirt]

You do realize, RHT, that East Coast fillies run on dirt, right? And that there aren't any dirt tracks with GI races in California, right? I just want to make sure you're clear on that concept.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

You do realize, RHT, that East Coast fillies run on dirt, right? And that there aren't any dirt tracks with GI races in California, right? I just want to make sure you're clear on that concept.

O ok, I understand now. Since Z has "ONLY" shipped to run on dirt twice, lets do it this way...

Did Rachel ship twice to try synthetics? Breeders Cup was on synthetics last year, where was she?

[slotdirt]

I'm not sure you're understanding me, young RHT. They don't run on dirt in California. Why would a dirt horse ship to run on something other than dirt?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm not sure you're understanding me, young RHT. They don't run on dirt in California. Why would a dirt horse ship to run on something other than dirt?

Seeing how Jackson has mapped out her campaign in 2010, do you honestly believe he would ship her out to The Clement Hirsch to face Zenyatta if Delmar was a dirt track? I'm certainly not that gullable.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by CSC

Seeing how Jackson has mapped out her campaign in 2010, do you honestly believe he would ship her out to The Clement Hirsch to face Zenyatta if Delmar was a dirt track? I'm certainly not that gullable.

If California had dirt tracks, I'm 99 percent positive we would have already seen a Zenyatta-Rachel Alexandra matchup and nobody would have watched because both Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta would have lost at some point already.

[Danzig]

had cali not mandated all the awt's, and the bc been held on dirt last fall, there's no doubt in my mind rachel would have run a different campaign, and been at the bc.

perhaps people aren't happy with the zenyatta camp because they said they were going to travel with her this year, and let her fans see her.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by CSC

Seeing how Jackson has mapped out her campaign in 2010, do you honestly believe he would ship her out to The Clement Hirsch to face Zenyatta if Delmar was a dirt track? I'm certainly not that gullable.

I don't know if it's fair to say that. Agreed that JJ will not win any popularity contests in the near future. But how do you know that any California races wouldn't be on their map if in fact they ran on dirt out there? California isn't in play for them so they scheduled, not well but accordingly. Who knows, maybe the BC would have been in play last year instead of the Woodward. It's not a surface they want to run her on, so they can't be blamed for not racing there.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm not sure you're understanding me, young RHT. They don't run on dirt in California. Why would a dirt horse ship to run on something other than dirt?

So why is this acceptable? Synthetics are a part of the game, they run over synthetics at Keeneland, one could argue the best other then Toga.
Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

Oh boy.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

So why is this acceptable? Synthetics are a part of the game, they run over synthetics at Keeneland, one could argue the best other then Toga.
Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

Its change

Our generation is fine with it, the old cranky people set in their ways just bitch and complain instead of educating themselves on it. It isn't like they can't just avoid it.

Bet you take a poll and people from 0-30 are fine with synthetics, people from 31-40 will be unfavored, and people 41+ the majority will hate it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

So why is this acceptable? Synthetics are a part of the game, they run over synthetics at Keeneland, one could argue the best other then Toga.
Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

you keep saying they are a part of the game, in a few years time i don't feel that will be the case. there is a very real gulf between dirt and synthetics. even bob baffert prefers shipping a horse to the east and running on dirt. that's very, very telling. as is the lack of horses in california. the move to synthetics was supposed to address that problem yet it has not. yes, i know there are less owners-but why is cali the one taking the brunt of that?
so, altho there are synthetics, it doesn't mean the trainers want a part of it. todd pletcher used to ship out to cali fairly often. not any more. why do you think the chrb has now said they can go back to dirt? because it's a failed experiment.

and as for keeneland, they're part owner of an awt company. of course they're going to use it. awt seems to work in places without weather extremes. woodbine and keeneland are examples of that.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

So why is this acceptable? Synthetics are a part of the game, they run over synthetics at Keeneland, one could argue the best other then Toga.
Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

bob baffert:

"He broke fine and Martin eased him to the outside," Baffert said of the winner. "I knew we’d lose a little bit of ground, but that was the winning move.

“At the three-eighths pole, that’s when you know you’ve got a good horse because they’ll be pulling you. Martin was still sitting, but when he pushed the button, the horse really took off. You can’t make that move on synthetic, but on dirt it was the winning move. That’s really what I like to see -- running fast horses on fast tracks."
Baffert has always maintained that Lookin At Lucky was a better horse on dirt than on synthetic surfaces, which the colt has raced on for most of his career.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

Unlike your metabolism ... I won't ignore you.

I don't think it's any harder making figures for synthetic than it is for dirt. In fact, it's probably easier at most synthetic tracks.

The supposed "problems" come when the horses change surfaces.

Synthetic tracks make top horses look a little worse than they are - and they make bad horses look a little better than they are. As your facebook homeboy Baffert likes to say.

If you win by 3 lengths on turf or synthetic - it's a full fledged ass kicking. If you beat a field by the same margin on dirt ... it's a more competitive race.

That is why a bunch of horses who would consistantly run 50's on synthetic would not even come close to being able to run that fast when put on dirt. However, synthetic horses at the top end who handle dirt should be able to run faster numbers on dirt because dirt races are almost always truly run.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

O ok, I understand now. Since Z has "ONLY" shipped to run on dirt twice, lets do it this way...

Did Rachel ship twice to try synthetics? Breeders Cup was on synthetics last year, where was she?

[CSC]

They should turn atleast one of those So Cal tracks back to dirt, then we will see just how many horses want to ship out west for easy money. This seems to be the most popular excuse for the Eastern based fans. My opinion, they still won't ship.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Danzig

one thing i don't understand with all this talk of shipping...other horses who are aimed at several races on the east coast, stay on the east coast. they don't ship back and forth. lookin at lucky for instance, he's in saratoga. why can't they send zenyatta to new york, train her there, run her there, and then go to ky from there.

answer-because they don't want to. talk of all these races away from where she likes it best is just that, talk. her owners and trainer want her to go out undefeated. what's the best way to do that? keep doing exactly what they're doing.

I could understand Sherriffs wanting Z to be in as much of a controlled enviorment as possible. Or at least with Sherriffs somewhere in the immediate vicinity to be able to check in and tend on her as he feels. Shipping and leaving her to train on the east coast would probably be outside of Sherriffs comfort zone. I just don't think he would be willing to leave her in someone else's care when he had to go back home and tend to the rest of the stable.
That being said, I still don't understand why they can't ship East for a race and then come back home.

[Danzig]

just saw on drf that zenyatta was entered for saturday. shireffs is still being coy about whether she'll actually run. but really, no surprise.

[slotdirt]

I think if they were actually thinking of shipping somewhere to the actual East Coast this season, it should have been done for this current start and not the one after this. That would have made the most sense schedule-wise.