Chief Douche Bag

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you mentioned gulf one....no one was against it. iraq brought that on themself when they invaded kuwait. that was probably the highest point for the u.s. in years-that coalition was quite an achievement. you might want to go back to all that happened during that time, and see the reaction when bush sr suggested taking down hussein then. and why we didn't invade iraq then. what changed in the years since then, i don't know (nothing did)? bush jr ignored everything in his rush to connect iraq to 9/11, or to something, and invade. it was an astronomical blunder. the reason the senate bit is that bush and his minions sold everyone hook, line and sinker on why to invade. it was a huge lie. we elect these people to make crucial decisions. they may not always be the most popular decision. but they should be the right one.
question: when in history has a president of this country asked for a war vote and not gotten it?

before you go to war, you're supposed to make sure that it's a righteous war, also that it's a winnable war, and that it will leave you in a better position than you were before. can you say any of those fit iraq or afganistan?

Iraq yes: Afghanistan no!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Iraq yes: Afghanistan no!

iraq was not a righteous war. nor are we better off than we were before we went in.

Afghanistan is a waste of time as well.

If you can't do what you please in Pakistan then what's the point?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

iraq was not a righteous war. nor are we better off than we were before we went in.

Well...I'd feel better about it if we could find the 8.7 billion missing from the Defense dept!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Well...I'd feel better about it if we could find the 8.7 billion missing from the Defense dept!

that's only a part of the problem. iran wouldn't be such a thorn in our side right now if we'd stayed out of there to begin with. afganistan would have gotten all our time and attention when it was needed. maybe instead of still being involved in two wars, we'd be in none right now. now, wouldn't that be nice? if we hadn't gone into iraq, we wouldn't be missing all that money right now, would we?

afganistan is fubar. history showed the difficulties that were to be found there. pakistan doesn't help. taking men, material and money from afganistan to go into iraq, which was completely unnecessary, only has drawn out the bs in afganistan.

being in those two regions right now restricts us elsewhere.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

that's only a part of the problem. iran wouldn't be such a thorn in our side right now if we'd stayed out of there to begin with.

What in the world would lead you to believe this?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What in the world would lead you to believe this?

because iran and iraq kept each other in check. removing half that equation left the other half, iran, with a power vacuum to fill. they happily have done so. who over there can convince iran to behave now? saudi arabia? us? note the move to nukes since we took out saddam. remember the iran/iraq war? who backed iraq, since we used the 'enemy of our enemy is our friend' line of foreign policy for years?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because iran and iraq kept each other in check. removing half that equation left the other half, iran, with a power vacuum to fill. they happily have done so. who over there can convince iran to behave now? saudi arabia? us? note the move to nukes since we took out saddam. remember the iran/iraq war? who backed iraq, since we used the 'enemy of our enemy is our friend' line of foreign policy for years?

you do remember the Hussein family? We cried foul on ourselves when we water boarded. This guy and sons were killing people for fun.

BTW Israel is and will keep Iran in check.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because iran and iraq kept each other in check. removing half that equation left the other half, iran, with a power vacuum to fill. they happily have done so. who over there can convince iran to behave now? saudi arabia? us? note the move to nukes since we took out saddam. remember the iran/iraq war? who backed iraq, since we used the 'enemy of our enemy is our friend' line of foreign policy for years?

This was true 20 years ago but just isn't relevant anymore. Iran is a "thorn" because they are developing nukes which has no relevance to Iraq. Iraq had no control over Iran nor would the presense of Saddam prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons.