Coming to a close.....

[Split Rock]

Originally Posted by dagolfer33

All I got to say is.........REDBOARDER!!!!!!!!

What does that mean?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

What does that mean?

He's kidding you for telling us about the big P4 hit at Los Al now...

Didn't get a chance to respond yesterday, but wanted to. I never thought I'd ever get to a place where I couldn't care less about the MLB box scores or the batting average list or miss a Championship or World Series game. Same with NFL action. But I grew so tired of pro sports, (other than the NHL which remains the most pleasant professional sport), that I barely pay attention.

I was a season ticket holder of the Reds, Royals and Expos while living in Cincinnati, Kansas City and Montreal. I was an Eagles season ticket holder in the Vet (Sec. 729, Row 13) for 14 years commuting to Philly on Sundays and Mondays from Montreal and later Saratoga the whole time. And I had Direct TV to watch he road games. Last year I may have watched only 6-7 of the Birds' 16 games.

Point is, ardor ebbs and flows, and passions go in various directions. As I've gotten older, racing has become more interesting and enticing to me than team sports. I'm as surprised by it as you seem to be with your declining interest in racing and wagering.

You may not have acknowledged that there were people 'taking an edge' when you first got involved as a horseplayer, but there were. The fact is that there is better policing of the sport now than ever in its' history, and more progress has been made in the area in the last 5 years than in the previous 30. The Rudy Rod stories will always jump up with something that is providing them an edge, but it never lasts. They get stopped and the latest innovation is added to the list of super testing.

If you really examine it, I'd expect you'll find more underlying reasons for being drawn away from racing than the less-widespread-than-people-think drug issue.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Kasept

He's kidding you for telling us about the big P4 hit at Los Al now...

Didn't get a chance to respond yesterday, but wanted to. I never thought I'd ever get to a place where I couldn't care less about the MLB box scores or the batting average list or miss a Championship or World Series game. Same with NFL action. But I grew so tired of pro sports, (other than the NHL which remains the most pleasant professional sport), that I barely pay attention.

I was a season ticket holder of the Reds, Royals and Expos while living in Cincinnati, Kansas City and Montreal. I was an Eagles season ticket holder in the Vet (Sec. 729, Row 13) for 14 years commuting to Philly on Sundays and Mondays from Montreal and later Saratoga the whole time. And I had Direct TV to watch he road games. Last year I may have watched only 6-7 of the Birds' 16 games.

Point is, ardor ebbs and flows, and passions go in various directions. As I've gotten older, racing has become more interesting and enticing to me than team sports. I'm as surprised by it as you seem to be with your declining interest in racing and wagering.

You may not have acknowledged that there were people 'taking an edge' when you first got involved as a horseplayer, but there were. The fact is that there is better policing of the sport now than ever in its' history, and more progress has been made in the area in the last 5 years than in the previous 30. The Rudy Rod stories will always jump up with something that is providing them an edge, but it never lasts. They get stopped and the latest innovation is added to the list of super testing.

If you really examine it, I'd expect you'll find more underlying reasons for being drawn away from racing than the less-widespread-than-people-think drug issue.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The Rudy Rod stories will always jump up with something that is providing them an edge, but it never lasts. They get stopped and the latest innovation is added to the list of super testing.

This assumes that RUDY is 'working alone', so to speak. What if he's just working for a connection that has shown similarly incredible results for trainers other than RUDY -- like the Dutrows and Brown?

So, the JUICE might just be coming from a higher source (than just a lowly trainer).

And, if this connection runs a lot of horses at multiple tracks in a period where filling races is getting more and more difficult, do you think THEY 'get stopped'?

Doubtful

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

This assumes that RUDY is 'working alone', so to speak. What if he's just working for a connection that has shown similarly incredible results for trainers other than RUDY -- like the Dutrows and Brown?

So, the JUICE might just be coming from a higher source (than just a lowly trainer).

And, if this connection runs a lot of horses at multiple tracks in a period where filling races is getting more and more difficult, do you think THEY 'get stopped'?

Doubtful

You really think Chad Brown is using?

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You really think Chad Brown is using?

Well, the fact that Silver Timber was ready for the dog food truck just before Brown got him and is STILL going strong -- better than at any point previously in his career; and that he got a win out of Gimme Credit (though this was more about the bad ride on the favorite than anything else) kind of leans me in that direction. However, I'm looking at the connection that Brown, RUDY and the Dutrows have in common. Just my opinion, of course. What do I know?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Well, the fact that Silver Timber was ready for the dog food truck just before Brown got him and is STILL going strong -- better than at any point previously in his career; and that he got a win out of Gimme Credit (though this was more about the bad ride on the favorite than anything else) kind of leans me in that direction. However, I'm looking at the connection that Brown, RUDY and the Dutrows have in common. Just my opinion, of course. What do I know?

I suppose you're referring to the common ownership of those horses of Michael Dubb. As far as the two you mentioned, Gimme Credit was a hopeless underachiever with no nose for the wire at all. The fact that Chad got a win out of him at Monmouth is probably not suspicious, unless of course he becomes a graded stakes horse soon.

As far as Silver Timber, Linda Rice put him through the gauntlet in 2008 with five starts in ten weeks before dropping him in for a tag at Gulfstream. Chad Brown took him from there and things started to turn around, perhaps something in the horse's training or something else physical.

I'm naive as to what types of methods trainers could be using to procure an edge. However, Chad Brown's two supposed examples of being a "user" pale in comparison to me to Rudy's numerous feats and that of the Dutrows through the years.

Worth noting that Dubb is using Asmussen now and they recently claimed Cagey Girl, who looked like the second coming of Citronnade in a recent NY bred allowance and is going in tomorrow's 8th at Belmont.

NT

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm naive as to what types of methods trainers could be using to procure an edge.
NT

I have no idea what the methods are. All I can note is the effect of these methods: horses that just don't stop in the lane -- no matter what trip they've gotten to that point. This is prominently on display, though not with the consistency of previous years, in horses that Pletcher runs. And it was probably the most evident in horses that Joradan ran up at WO. Of course, after his POSITIVE last year, most of his horses now stop, like normal horses would, after hard trips. We all pretty much have enough experience to know that if it's not about the trip or a track bias then it's got to be about that other thing. Which is fine with me. When one of these individuals has a horse in the race, I just take a couple of extra combinations to cover my ass or pass the race. Not like this is any different than what was happening in the '80's with Oscar and Pete, and the others.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

As far as Silver Timber, Linda Rice put him through the gauntlet in 2008 with five starts in ten weeks before dropping him in for a tag at Gulfstream.

NT

I laughed.

[Split Rock]

Originally Posted by Kasept

He's kidding you for telling us about the big P4 hit at Los Al now...

Didn't get a chance to respond yesterday, but wanted to. I never thought I'd ever get to a place where I couldn't care less about the MLB box scores or the batting average list or miss a Championship or World Series game. Same with NFL action. But I grew so tired of pro sports, (other than the NHL which remains the most pleasant professional sport), that I barely pay attention.

I was a season ticket holder of the Reds, Royals and Expos while living in Cincinnati, Kansas City and Montreal. I was an Eagles season ticket holder in the Vet (Sec. 729, Row 13) for 14 years commuting to Philly on Sundays and Mondays from Montreal and later Saratoga the whole time. And I had Direct TV to watch he road games. Last year I may have watched only 6-7 of the Birds' 16 games.

Point is, ardor ebbs and flows, and passions go in various directions. As I've gotten older, racing has become more interesting and enticing to me than team sports. I'm as surprised by it as you seem to be with your declining interest in racing and wagering.

You may not have acknowledged that there were people 'taking an edge' when you first got involved as a horseplayer, but there were. The fact is that there is better policing of the sport now than ever in its' history, and more progress has been made in the area in the last 5 years than in the previous 30. The Rudy Rod stories will always jump up with something that is providing them an edge, but it never lasts. They get stopped and the latest innovation is added to the list of super testing.

If you really examine it, I'd expect you'll find more underlying reasons for being drawn away from racing than the less-widespread-than-people-think drug issue.

A couple of things: 1. Is that guy insinuating that I made up hitting the Los Al pick 4? If so, that is kind of funny. If people really make up big hits on a forum to gain favor with people they don't know....that is pretty sad.

2. Your points are well taken. I love horse racing and always have. I just hate where the game is today. I also hate that I don't trust any of the great equine accomplishments any longer and probably never will. I've been jaded by what I've seen. That's what makes it very tough. Even when losing, I've always been able to fall back on the fact that I loved the "sport" of racing AND the intellect needed to play the game. Both of those areas are being seriously hindered at the moment.

3. I don't buy the "better policing". I know what I see in the PP's and when trainers are winning at 28, 30, 35, 45, 60% across the country....there is a serious problem. In addition, how about explaining the Dick Clark phenomenon. This guy would win at a 30% clip at PRM for years on end. He was automatic. This year....4% in about 162 starts. Obviously, he was caught and has reverted to not using what he had in the past. Point is....The difference between using something to get and edge and not is the difference between winning 30% and 4%? If so....wow!!

Any way you slice it....I just don't see the game moving in the right direction. There are a lot of good people, smart people, involved and they alone have kept the game afloat. I believe the people that don't care about the long term health of the sport will run it over and into the ground. And I believe this to be sooner than later.

[dagolfer33]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

A couple of things: 1. Is that guy insinuating that I made up hitting the Los Al pick 4? If so, that is kind of funny. If people really make up big hits on a forum to gain favor with people they don't know....that is pretty sad.

2. Your points are well taken. I love horse racing and always have. I just hate where the game is today. I also hate that I don't trust any of the great equine accomplishments any longer and probably never will. I've been jaded by what I've seen. That's what makes it very tough. Even when losing, I've always been able to fall back on the fact that I loved the "sport" of racing AND the intellect needed to play the game. Both of those areas are being seriously hindered at the moment.

3. I don't buy the "better policing". I know what I see in the PP's and when trainers are winning at 28, 30, 35, 45, 60% across the country....there is a serious problem. In addition, how about explaining the Dick Clark phenomenon. This guy would win at a 30% clip at PRM for years on end. He was automatic. This year....4% in about 162 starts. Obviously, he was caught and has reverted to not using what he had in the past. Point is....The difference between using something to get and edge and not is the difference between winning 30% and 4%? If so....wow!!

Any way you slice it....I just don't see the game moving in the right direction. There are a lot of good people, smart people, involved and they alone have kept the game afloat. I believe the people that don't care about the long term health of the sport will run it over and into the ground. And I believe this to be sooner than later.

I was JUST KIDDING!!!!! I would however, using cabvmd's statements, make a motion that we include the attending vet's win percentages in programs from now on.

[Split Rock]

Originally Posted by dagolfer33

I was JUST KIDDING!!!!! I would however, using cabvmd's statements, make a motion that we include the attending vet's win percentages in programs from now on.

LOVE IT!! Agree 100% with that. Man, wouldn't that be interesting.