first samurai

Originally Posted by paisjpq

he also may ultimately benefit from the godolphin coolmore feud...the sheiks won't go to GC or buy his offspring but I bet they still want some of his blood...if so 1st Sam's babies could bring $$$$

Bingo!!!
Breeders know that they can't hit a home run with Giant offspring with the sheikhs, but may hit one with one of his sons standing someplace else.

[jpops757]

Does Lbig have any mares that would make a good match. From what I here he is not into the breeding end of it except for providing the stud and I dont know what % he retained. In my opinion the 40k will be a good investment, Look for it to jump dramaticaly. So versital Speed, Probably the main atribute for a goos 2y old year,well within TC contintion, grass posibilities, and never showing any soundness problems.One of his seldom mentioned qualitieswas his trainablity. Simply put Versatility and quality.

Originally Posted by jpops757

Does Lbig have any mares that would make a good match. From what I here he is not into the breeding end of it except for providing the stud and I dont know what % he retained. In my opinion the 40k will be a good investment, Look for it to jump dramaticaly. So versital Speed, Probably the main atribute for a goos 2y old year,well within TC contintion, grass posibilities, and never showing any soundness problems.One of his seldom mentioned qualitieswas his trainablity. Simply put Versatility and quality.

Hes got some mares, but will need more.
Hes quite enjoying watching the few he has bred run so far. Bad Boy Rising is a homebred whos been 2nd twice(one in a stakes race) and won a race in three starts.
He also had a horse break his maiden at Arlington this past summer who ran back off the board in the ARl Wash futurity that he also bred.
He really seems to LOVE watching these homebreds perform more than the ones hes bought.
Message Red produced a lovely Forest Wildcat this past spring, and she went to Offlee Wild this past year.
I know he has a full brother yearling to Bad Boy Rising as well.
Hes a remarkable businessman, and I think that he, like many others, have realized that trying to buy yearlings at the Sheikh-Coolmore domnated sales is a real uphill battle and an expensive one to wage.
More and more owners are looking to breed their own horses and buy fewer yearlings or two year olds in training.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by oracle80

He also had a horse break his maiden at Arlington this past summer who ran back off the board in the ARl Wash futurity that he also bred.

WTF, how come I didn't know about this?

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Hes got some mares, but will need more.
Hes quite enjoying watching the few he has bred run so far. Bad Boy Rising is a homebred whos been 2nd twice(one in a stakes race) and won a race in three starts.
He also had a horse break his maiden at Arlington this past summer who ran back off the board in the ARl Wash futurity that he also bred.
He really seems to LOVE watching these homebreds perform more than the ones hes bought.
Message Red produced a lovely Forest Wildcat this past spring, and she went to Offlee Wild this past year.
I know he has a full brother yearling to Bad Boy Rising as well.
Hes a remarkable businessman, and I think that he, like many others, have realized that trying to buy yearlings at the Sheikh-Coolmore domnated sales is a real uphill battle and an expensive one to wage.
More and more owners are looking to breed their own horses and buy fewer yearlings or two year olds in training.

Could this mean that some of the new "players" could be looking for some top quality mares that didnt make it to the track but were well bred. I guess the key is why they didnt make it to the track.

[cakes44]

I obviously know near nothing about breeding, so can someone explain to me why you'd take a mare to FS for 40G when you could have Medaglia d'Oro for the same price. MD was a Triple Crown runner, sound, won GI races at 3 and 4, and is by another proven sire?

Originally Posted by cakes44

I obviously know near nothing about breeding, so can someone explain to me why you'd take a mare to FS for 40G when you could have Medaglia d'Oro for the same price. MD was a Triple Crown runner, sound, won GI races at 3 and 4, and is by another proven sire?

He didn't win at age two, and didnt show precociousness.
Hes also a HUGE risk because hes standing at a fledgling operation without a proven large broodmare base. He may not have gone to the best mares in his debut season, and that could effect future value of the offspring.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

He didn't win at age two, and didnt show precociousness.
Hes also a HUGE risk because hes standing at a fledgling operation without a proven large broodmare base. He may not have gone to the best mares in his debut season, and that could effect future value of the offspring.

They may not have the best mares (not all farms can be Juddmonte ), but their marketing to get the best mares is down right brilliant.

Originally Posted by Sightseek

They may not have the best mares (not all farms can be Juddmonte ), but their marketing to get the best mares is down right brilliant.

Yeah I know all about it, you get to go back for free if you breed a stakes winner.
But Sightseek lets face it, sires who start out at a farm who is stocked with black type mares have an edge.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yeah I know all about it, you get to go back for free if you breed a stakes winner.
But Sightseek lets face it, sires who start out at a farm who is stocked with black type mares have an edge.

Oh no doubt, which is why Bellamy Road is doomed. The farm has no mares to support him and even I, the worlds biggest BR lover, wouldn't breed to him with all of the other options in Kentucky.

You also hit the nail on the head, First Sam's progeny have the potential to be track ready much sooner.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

They may not have the best mares (not all farms can be Juddmonte ), but their marketing to get the best mares is down right brilliant.

Marketing may sell rain jackets but it usually spells desperation in the stallion business. If your mare produces a stake winner you wont necessarily need a free stud fee.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Marketing may sell rain jackets but it usually spells desperation in the stallion business. If your mare produces a stake winner you wont necessarily need a free stud fee.

LOL! Cannon Shell you read my mind.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Marketing may sell rain jackets but it usually spells desperation in the stallion business. If your mare produces a stake winner you wont necessarily need a free stud fee.

They are trying to break into a market that is pretty exclusive to a very small amount of farms, of course they are desperate. But, you also can't stand there and not try something new to compete with them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I obviously know near nothing about breeding, so can someone explain to me why you'd take a mare to FS for 40G when you could have Medaglia d'Oro for the same price. MD was a Triple Crown runner, sound, won GI races at 3 and 4, and is by another proven sire?

MDo is by a turf sire out of non-descript turf leaning female family. FS was more successful racing at shorter distances as a 2 yo which is what the buyers seem to want. Also FS's dam was a sprinter who has produced speed. He has a good combination of speed and stamina while MDo pedigree suggests long on turf.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

I wish Sam the best of luck. But at $40k, I am not sure he is gonna be the best bargain out there. His book will fill, but may not early and may not for the full advertised price. He is by Giant's Causeway, but that may not be the best thing since he is an unproven sire of sires. For my money, I'd go to a son of Storm Cat before a son of a son of Storm Cat.

Depending on the match I think Dixie Union may be the best value at $40k in Kentucky.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

Depending on the match I think Dixie Union may be the best value at $40k in Kentucky.

Do you want to be my very best friend? LOL

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Do you want to be my very best friend? LOL

Not sure what to make of that. LOL

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

Not sure what to make of that. LOL

LOL, just kidding with you, but I LOVE Dixie Union as a sire.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

LOL, just kidding with you, but I LOVE Dixie Union as a sire.

I think he is a well priced stallion and is getting nice mares. He seems to be holding a very nice commercial value as well.

[Nostradamus]

First Sam has zero chance of a full book at $40K. They will fill it at around $25K.

Albert the Great will be the best value. The price though is going up significantly from $8500. He is starting to throw some real runners.

The best values right now are Dynaformer at $150,000 and Point Given at $30,000. Breeding to cheap stallions is a waste of money.