Belmont Entries for 5/29.... Very Poor

[jms62]

Originally Posted by philcski

1000% agree with this...

('bettable' has two 't's' though)

Ditto. This whole debate is like ground hog day.

1. We (the consumer) complain.
2. We get blasted and hear a hundred excuses (many are valid)
3. No thinking out of the box to change things by management.
4. The whole cycle starts again.

If MP is a one hit wonder so be it, at least we enjoy this year.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by jms62

Ditto. This whole debate is like ground hog day.

1. We (the consumer) complain.
2. We get blasted and hear a hundred excuses (many are valid)
3. No thinking out of the box to change things by management.
4. The whole cycle starts again.

If MP is a one hit wonder so be it, at least we enjoy this year.

I'll preface my comments by saying that the NYRA racing office isn't perfect, but to state that they have not "changed things" just plain ignores reality. All you would have to do is compare the condition book in NY today to the one that was used when Mike Lakow was the racing secretary. There is far more variety from a condition perspective (I do believe that TFM is correct on the lack of diversity in distances, but that may be the fault of horsemen as much as it is the racing office). For better or worse, and some would say for the worse, this has allowed horses to remain competitive here (albeit in relatively cheap races) longer than they would have in the past. For example, when Lakow was the racing secretary, if you have a 4YO break its maiden for a tag, there was no place for that horse to run in NY after the maiden win.

I do think they have overdone it with the conditioned claimers; an unintended consequence is that it has gutted what used to be (attractive) claiming races restricted to 3YOs, but the problems invariably stem from the political issues here in NY. When the money is there and guys have to run (as it was in Saratoga 2-3 years ago), everyone proclaimed the racing office as genuises. In reality, they benefited from circumstances then; harmed by circumstances now, they aren't idiots either.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I'll preface my comments by saying that the NYRA racing office isn't perfect, but to state that they have not "changed things" just plain ignores reality. All you would have to do is compare the condition book in NY today to the one that was used when Mike Lakow was the racing secretary. There is far more variety from a condition perspective (I do believe that TFM is correct on the lack of diversity in distances, but that may be the fault of horsemen as much as it is the racing office). For better or worse, and some would say for the worse, this has allowed horses to remain competitive here (albeit in relatively cheap races) longer than they would have in the past. For example, when Lakow was the racing secretary, if you have a 4YO break its maiden for a tag, there was no place for that horse to run in NY after the maiden win.

I do think they have overdone it with the conditioned claimers; an unintended consequence is that it has gutted what used to be (attractive) claiming races restricted to 3YOs, but the problems invariably stem from the political issues here in NY. When the money is there and guys have to run (as it was in Saratoga 2-3 years ago), everyone proclaimed the racing office as genuises. In reality, they benefited from circumstances then; harmed by circumstances now, they aren't idiots either.

Pixie thanks for your well thought out response. Regardless we face a holiday Sat with 3 maiden claimers and that just blows...

[philcski]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I'll preface my comments by saying that the NYRA racing office isn't perfect, but to state that they have not "changed things" just plain ignores reality. All you would have to do is compare the condition book in NY today to the one that was used when Mike Lakow was the racing secretary. There is far more variety from a condition perspective (I do believe that TFM is correct on the lack of diversity in distances, but that may be the fault of horsemen as much as it is the racing office). For better or worse, and some would say for the worse, this has allowed horses to remain competitive here (albeit in relatively cheap races) longer than they would have in the past. For example, when Lakow was the racing secretary, if you have a 4YO break its maiden for a tag, there was no place for that horse to run in NY after the maiden win.

I do think they have overdone it with the conditioned claimers; an unintended consequence is that it has gutted what used to be (attractive) claiming races restricted to 3YOs, but the problems invariably stem from the political issues here in NY. When the money is there and guys have to run (as it was in Saratoga 2-3 years ago), everyone proclaimed the racing office as genuises. In reality, they benefited from circumstances then; harmed by circumstances now, they aren't idiots either.

So what? If you aren't good enough... see ya. This is supposed to be the PREMIER venue. Who says just because you make it through $30K MCL at BEL means you are entitled to run there again? Philadelphia, Delaware, Pimlico, Finger Lakes, Penn National, and even Suffolk would be happy to accept your entry for $20K N2L.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

So what? If you aren't good enough... see ya. This is supposed to be the PREMIER venue. Who says just because you make it through $30K MCL at BEL means you are entitled to run there again? Philadelphia, Delaware, Pimlico, Finger Lakes, Penn National, and even Suffolk would be happy to accept your entry for $20K N2L.

While I think that there are entirely too many conditioned claimers offered everywhere, Belmont is hardly Premier enough to not offer owners of those types of horses an opportunity to win a winners race in NY. In theory the elimination of those races would increase the quality of horse running in NY. In reality it would lead to more NYB maiden 15 races and a further exodus of horses out of NY.

The fact is that there is already not a whole lot of incentive for an owner of non NYbreds to stable them in NY. Decreasing opportunities at this juncture makes a bad situation worse.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

While I think that there are entirely too many conditioned claimers offered everywhere, Belmont is hardly Premier enough to not offer owners of those types of horses an opportunity to win a winners race in NY. In theory the elimination of those races would increase the quality of horse running in NY. In reality it would lead to more NYB maiden 15 races and a further exodus of horses out of NY.

The fact is that there is already not a whole lot of incentive for an owner of non NYbreds to stable them in NY. Decreasing opportunities at this juncture makes a bad situation worse.

That was my theory- but you are probably right.

Sunday's card is really bad. 10 races, 69 entries before scratches (+5 MTO's), biggest field is only 8- and outside of the Kingston (which is really good), the rest of the races are just not good. Very sad.

[Linny]

Cannon is right. It's not like those conditioned claimers would be replaced by high value allowance races. The days of allowance horse running back in 2 weeks are long gone. They are managed like stakes horses and run about every 4-5 weeks, thus those conditions simply don't fill as often.

Even a couple of years ago, horses that broke their maidens in NYB MDCL on the inner went to Finger Lakes as soon as it opened. Now, they are filling cards at Belmont. Even in grass races and "better races" I see alot of horses with extensive winter campaigns.