Zenyatta v. Rail Trip??

[Danzig]

What I find exceedingly tedious about this entire protracted discussion is that the bc is being used as the only measure of these two horses total worth in '09. Zenyatta gets a pass for an otherwise uninspiring year because she won. Rachel is vilified because altho she had an exceedingly rare campaign for a 3 year old filly, she skipped the bc. Its unbelievable and defies logic. And somehow, were rachel to manage to win the bc this year, I imagine the zenyatta booster club would be less enthused then thhey were last year.

As for hoy this year, neither mare has done anything thus far to warrant being included on the ballot.

[Merlinsky]

My blood sugar is a low so I've gone a little nuts and decided that those of us head over heels for both mares need a nickname. How about "RAZen"s? You know, like the shriveled up fruity snack? Much better than Brangelina. Yeah I'm a dork. You're welcome. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go eat something...I'll leave you with my pre-typed babble.

Originally Posted by Danzig

What I find exceedingly tedious about this entire protracted discussion is that the bc is being used as the only measure of these two horses total worth in '09. Zenyatta gets a pass for an otherwise uninspiring year because she won. Rachel is vilified because altho she had an exceedingly rare campaign for a 3 year old filly, she skipped the bc. Its unbelievable and defies logic. And somehow, were rachel to manage to win the bc this year, I imagine the zenyatta booster club would be less enthused then thhey were last year.

As for hoy this year, neither mare has done anything thus far to warrant being included on the ballot.

Yeah at the rate they're going, neither one has achieved your typical HOY accomplishments. I know they think Zenyatta is God's gift to horse racing (she kind of is--not my point), but could they just play a tape of her winning races on synethetic in CA against the females, emerging victorious right at the end, and let the horse herself hang out in the pasture? She doesn't even need to be there, we could just hit replay. I got my hopes high from the trip to Oaklawn, I guess. Rachel's lack of pizazz despite putting up decent numbers/races for any other horse doesn't perk things up either. I'm in a funk--c'mon Super Saver. I love Preakness time because you sneeze post-Derby and you're right there at another TC race. Nice and exciting.

Right now, I think they're keeping that record in mind. Again, I don't blame them, it just doesn't do me any favors. Rail Trip's not the highest mountain. I know that remark about weights is probably a loaded comment meant to discourage giving her too much, otherwise they go elsewhere. To get Z in the Vanity, they're gonna give her less than she warrants. Whatever you think about handicap races, if you take a 17 hand undefeated phenom beating up on the same quality of field and it's her own gender, there's no reason to give her less than 130. It's ridiculous.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

My blood sugar is a low so I've gone a little nuts and decided that those of us head over heels for both mares need a nickname. How about "RAZen"s? You know, like the shriveled up fruity snack? Much better than Brangelina. Yeah I'm a dork. You're welcome. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go eat something...I'll leave you with my pre-typed babble.



Yeah at the rate they're going, neither one has achieved your typical HOY accomplishments. I know they think Zenyatta is God's gift to horse racing (she kind of is--not my point), but could they just play a tape of her winning races on synethetic in CA against the females, emerging victorious right at the end, and let the horse herself hang out in the pasture? She doesn't even need to be there, we could just hit replay. I got my hopes high from the trip to Oaklawn, I guess. Rachel's lack of pizazz despite putting up decent numbers/races for any other horse doesn't perk things up either. I'm in a funk--c'mon Super Saver. I love Preakness time because you sneeze post-Derby and you're right there at another TC race. Nice and exciting.

Right now, I think they're keeping that record in mind. Again, I don't blame them, it just doesn't do me any favors. Rail Trip's not the highest mountain. I know that remark about weights is probably a loaded comment meant to discourage giving her too much, otherwise they go elsewhere. To get Z in the Vanity, they're gonna give her less than she warrants. Whatever you think about handicap races, if you take a 17 hand undefeated phenom beating up on the same quality of field and it's her own gender, there's no reason to give her less than 130. It's ridiculous.

I think the record is their goal right now. Can't say I blame them at all for that. As for weights, sure they're going to try their best to keep them low-but by doing that as well as their over all handling, they've got no one to blame but themselves for the lack of respect they feel she is getting. Thing is, I think people respect the horse but not the connections. Many just know that she can do more, that she possibly could really excel-but they just won't test her.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Danzig

I think the record is their goal right now. Can't say I blame them at all for that. As for weights, sure they're going to try their best to keep them low-but by doing that as well as their over all handling, they've got no one to blame but themselves for the lack of respect they feel she is getting. Thing is, I think people respect the horse but not the connections. Many just know that she can do more, that she possibly could really excel-but they just won't test her.

I'm not sure that they don't respect the Mosses or the Shirreffs. I mean of the connections out there, I think people would like there to be more of their character in the sport. It's not all about the dollar and using horses as a commodity. It's just that their decisions are irksome to me right now. I understand them, I just don't like them.

If Zenyatta had won 2009 HOY, the odds of her being back this year plummet. What we're getting is horsemanship + pride + this conservative protectionism. That doesn't result in a truly glorious campaign because nothing's really on the line. It bores me. Sorry. (Not her exactly, the repetitiveness and ease of competition I mean) I can put an old race of hers on a loop and get the same effect. It's not like I'm getting to see her live, and most of America doesn't get to see her on tv. I'm happy for the folks in CA and at Oaklawn, but what good does it do anybody else? I guess they figure if they play their cards right she gets HOY, the N.A. earnings record, the undefeated streak record, and maybe beats RA for icing on the cake. Don't blame them, but it's not as much fun for me.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I think that Moss/Shirreffs had three goals for this year. I think their first goal was to beat RA. I think their second goal was to win the BC Classic again. I think their 3rd goal was to win HOY. I think those were their three big goals.

They tried to face RA but things didn't work out. At this point, I think their goals are the BC Classic and winning HOY.

I don't think that they think they have anything to prove. At this point, they will probably just look for the path of least resistance to the BC Classic. If they win the BC Classic, I think she is HOY regardless of how easy her schedule is leading up to the race.

As I said, I don't think they feel that they have anything to prove and even if there was something to prove, it would be proven in this year's BC Classic at Churchill. Nobody will be able to knock the horse if she wins the BC Classic again this year.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think that Moss/Shirreffs had three goals for this year. I think their first goal was to beat RA. I think their second goal was to win the BC Classic again. I think their 3rd goal was to win HOY. I think those were their three big goals.

They tried to face RA but things didn't work out. At this point, I think their goals are the BC Classic and winning HOY.

I don't think that they think they have anything to prove. At this point, they will probably just look for the path of least resistance to the BC Classic. If they win the BC Classic, I think she is HOY regardless of how easy her schedule is leading up to the race.

As I said, I don't think they feel that they have anything to prove and even if there was something to prove, it would be proven in this year's BC Classic at Churchill. Nobody will be able to knock the horse if she wins the BC Classic again this year.

Considering how difficult it is to do back to back, she'll definitely get a ton of credit in terms of her overall legend, but Tiznow did it and his 2nd didn't get him HOY because the rest of the campaign didn't bear him out in comparison to Point Given's year. PG didn't even have to show up for the BCC to get it. I don't know why everybody acts like not going ought to DQ you or something--it's but one factor to consider. We need to see what everybody else does. Some 3yos could pull what Tiznow did his 3yo season and show up later. We're already missing some recovering from Derby prep injuries or just now coming along. I've said it before, Zenyatta's magic, but I'm just not a fan of conceding a season to one horse before it's happened. I hope she's covered up with challengers by the end of this. It's better for racing. If she is and still kicks some tail, bravo for her.

I'd just love to see her at Belmont or Saratoga. Can someone explain to them that Zenyatta doesn't understand the words "ladies and gentlemen, if you'll look out the window of the cabin, you'll notice that we are currently crossing over the Rocky Mountains" ?

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think that Moss/Shirreffs had three goals for this year. I think their first goal was to beat RA. I think their second goal was to win the BC Classic again. I think their 3rd goal was to win HOY. I think those were their three big goals.

They tried to face RA but things didn't work out. At this point, I think their goals are the BC Classic and winning HOY.

I don't think that they think they have anything to prove. At this point, they will probably just look for the path of least resistance to the BC Classic. If they win the BC Classic, I think she is HOY regardless of how easy her schedule is leading up to the race.

As I said, I don't think they feel that they have anything to prove and even if there was something to prove, it would be proven in this year's BC Classic at Churchill. Nobody will be able to knock the horse if she wins the BC Classic again this year.

We both know that the haters will hate, no matter what. I'm sure some will cite the cupcake competition, race dynamics, etc. if she somehow re-claims the BC Classic title. Nature of the beast.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

We both know that the haters will hate, no matter what. I'm sure some will cite the cupcake competition, race dynamics, etc. if she somehow re-claims the BC Classic title. Nature of the beast.

Just because people have realistic reservations about Zenyatta doesn't make them " haters. "

Frankly, if she were to win this year's BC Classic, especially over Quality Road, it would make her shockingly cautious 2010 campaign even more disappointing. Even if one has reservations, who would deny how great it would be to see her strutting her stuff against some of the best competition she can find ( much like some other horse, whose name escapes me, did last year ) throughout the year? Even if these horses aren't all-time greats, taking on the best available talent would go a long ways to silencing her critics, and causing, perhaps, some well deserved excitement.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

I'm not sure that they don't respect the Mosses or the Shirreffs. I mean of the connections out there, I think people would like there to be more of their character in the sport. It's not all about the dollar and using horses as a commodity. It's just that their decisions are irksome to me right now. I understand them, I just don't like them.

If Zenyatta had won 2009 HOY, the odds of her being back this year plummet. What we're getting is horsemanship + pride + this conservative protectionism. That doesn't result in a truly glorious campaign because nothing's really on the line. It bores me. Sorry. (Not her exactly, the repetitiveness and ease of competition I mean) I can put an old race of hers on a loop and get the same effect. It's not like I'm getting to see her live, and most of America doesn't get to see her on tv. I'm happy for the folks in CA and at Oaklawn, but what good does it do anybody else? I guess they figure if they play their cards right she gets HOY, the N.A. earnings record, the undefeated streak record, and maybe beats RA for icing on the cake. Don't blame them, but it's not as much fun for me.

let me say, it's not respect for them-but respect for the campaign they've chosen for their stable star. i think practically everyone feels there is a lot more to zenyatta, and that perhaps she's getting cheated a bit by not taking on all comers. she's been in one unrestricted race her entire career. they wish for her to be considered an all-time great; it would help their cause immensely if they raced her as such.