Asmussen: No Rachel for Blossom

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Has logic consistently been applied by Jess Jackson to his decisions or, heck, his sentence construction? Did I miss something? He wanted that earnings record with Curlin once it came within reach and why wouldn't anybody? Protecting his interests in RA & Curlin at the same time ain't unreasonable. Just because you wouldn't do it, doesn't mean it wouldn't be done by Jess Jackson. It'd be bad enough to lose to Z, worse to watch her then eclipse Curlin's $$ record on top of everything, which she'd eventually do. Earnings records have mattered for years. It mattered with Citation.

Let's be clear, I made a general statement that anybody that would campaign their top class horses with those things (ie money records, unbeaten streaks) in mind is making a mistake. Now, did I disagree with you and say Jess Jackson wouldn't do it?

Nope.

As for unbeaten records, uh yeah that matters too. Just ask the folks with Pepper's Pride. There's gonna be a Tiznow-Pepper's Pride young'un this year because of it (probably is already, she was bred last March).

Yeah, they wouldn't have had a shot to breed her to Tiznow if she only won 18 out of 19.

Pepper's Pride lost the Tiznow foal in November according to the DRF, by the way.

The racing media sure reported on it like it was a thing to be impressed by.

Well, that settles that.

The Mosses didn't exactly throw caution to the wind all of last year.
Z's campaign up to the Classic was relatively conservative. They sure seemed to care at least a bit about her unbeaten record, unless I missed something.

That's the whole point of my post, if you had actually bothered to read it for the actual content, rather than coming to the ridiculous conclusion that I must be blasting you because I didn't blindly agree with what you posted.

Farms promote stallions like Seattle Slew and Smarty Jones as having done big things on the TC trail while unbeaten. It comes up virtually every time some talks about Personal Ensign. But yeah, who cares?

The point was that altering a horse's campaign for a money record or an unbeaten career is a foolish enterprise, that IMO, takes away from the horse's legacy. Did Seattle Slew or Smarty Jones skip the Belmont and point for the Ohio Derby to preserve their unbeaten streaks?

As for RA fans v. Zenyatta fans. Sorry folks, I consider myself a supporter of both horses. This ain't either/or. Calm down.

Clearly not a supporter of literacy, however. I like how you tell everyone else to "calm down" when you completely lost your wad reacting (and misinterpreting) to a single sentence.

[Merlinsky]

This isn't actually an effort to go point by point and call you obnoxious, I swear. I know breaking it down can look like that, and I think we've gotten caught up in the classic 'misinterpretation of tone on the internet' situation.

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Let's be clear, I made a general statement that anybody that would campaign their top class horses with those things (ie money records, unbeaten streaks) in mind is making a mistake. Now, did I disagree with you and say Jess Jackson wouldn't do it?

Nope.

That's just it, it's not useless to everyone even if it's just sentimental for some folks. If it's your horse, and you bet on your horse, I could imagine it mattering from a financial standpoint. Don't some of these owners drop a lot of cash wagering on their own horses? Thinking your horse is invincible or is in a soft spot could affect your wallet.

Regarding Pepper's Pride's foal, that's very sad. My point with her you gotta wonder if going 6-7-6 entirely in New Mexico would get her a date with Tiznow--her record demonstrated consistently, soundness, talent. Not that constantly being on the board doesn't. This just raises it to another level. The efforts of her team (and of Zenyatta's) is also highlighted by the achievement because it's no small thing to do. The record could be a feather in the cap of the trainer that conditioned a horse to do it, yes? It doesn't matter what level, it's something that gets a trainer press, and I would hope getting good press attracts people to their stable. The aura of being a winner, evident horsemanship, etc.

That's the whole point of my post, if you had actually bothered to read it for the actual content, rather than coming to the ridiculous conclusion that I must be blasting you because I didn't blindly agree with what you posted.

You said "The only thing more useless and more circumstantial than an unbeaten record is the earnings record.", I felt it was easily understood. Perhaps not. The words you chose seem to carry an implied and it felt like a dismissal of my thought as foolish. You did quote me, and reading your remark with my quote it sure came across as snarky. Did you not mean for that tone to exist in that sentence? All you need to do is say "I think you misunderstood me."

The point was that altering a horse's campaign for a money record or an unbeaten career is a foolish enterprise, that IMO, takes away from the horse's legacy. Did Seattle Slew or Smarty Jones skip the Belmont and point for the Ohio Derby to preserve their unbeaten streaks?

Well of course they didn't skip the Belmont, because a Triple Crown is even more important to them. They did mention it on ads though, I've read them. Why do that if they didn't think it would matter? I don't disagree that it can damage a legacy, although I do wonder how much damage it does to Zenyatta since she very nearly won Horse of the Year in spite of it. I agree with you that a legacy can be stronger when there's not a protectionist attitude. (I agreed with you! Let's hug!) It bugged me when Azeri could've branched out and didn't, and I will still wonder what could've been with Zenyatta even though she's won a BC Classic. How weird for that not to be enough.

Clearly not a supporter of literacy, however. I like how you tell everyone else to "calm down" when you completely lost your wad reacting (and misinterpreting) to a single sentence.

I offer you this not as a counterpoint (since we've clearly crossed wires) but as a source of amusement--I have a B.A. in English. Making observations about tone conveyed in text is something I've had to do many a time. I don't worry as much about proper grammar and punctuation on a message board. Clearly I've used my powers of analysis for evil.

If there was one thing worthwhile in Merlinsky's post above, it was that this does not have to be an "either/or" issue.

Aw shucks. A quasi-compliment.

[Indian Charlie]

This thread woulda been 21 pages long if KG was still around.

Oyy.

[letswastemoney]

Zardana ducks Zenyatta!

If Zenyatta was truly the best, why is Shirreffs afraid of running Zardana?

Oh well, it's a conflict of interest probably. If Zardana was kept in the race, Shirreffs could have very well undertrained Zardana somehow because his heart is set on Zenyatta winning.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=5032043

"The Apple Blossom field will not include Zardana or Rachel Alexandra, one-two finishers in the New Orleans Ladies at Fair Grounds on March 13. Shirreffs and owner Arnold Zetcher said Friday that Zardana will skip the Apple Blossom on April 9 and point instead for the Grade 2 La Troienne Stakes on April 30 at Churchill Downs. Zardana "could use a little time off," Zetcher said. He and Shirreffs also believe the 1 1/16-mile distance of the La Troienne suits Zardana more than the 1 1/8-mile Apple Blossom. "

[PeteMugg]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Zardana ducks Zenyatta!

If Zenyatta was truly the best, why is Shirreffs afraid of running Zardana?

Oh well, it's a conflict of interest probably. If Zardana was kept in the race, Shirreffs could have very well undertrained Zardana somehow because his heart is set on Zenyatta winning.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=5032043

"The Apple Blossom field will not include Zardana or Rachel Alexandra, one-two finishers in the New Orleans Ladies at Fair Grounds on March 13. Shirreffs and owner Arnold Zetcher said Friday that Zardana will skip the Apple Blossom on April 9 and point instead for the Grade 2 La Troienne Stakes on April 30 at Churchill Downs. Zardana "could use a little time off," Zetcher said. He and Shirreffs also believe the 1 1/16-mile distance of the La Troienne suits Zardana more than the 1 1/8-mile Apple Blossom. "

Zardana should be just as sharp as Rachel. I guess neither are quite ready for the Apple Blossom.

[the_fat_man]

Exactly right. The 3rd stringer in the barn beats the reigning horse of the year, pretty much GUTS her

BUT here (and on other forums)

it's really all about how the connections want to PROTECT a horse that's 15 for 15 ; in this case by not running her caddy against her.

Nothing like emulating Mike the Eunuch.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Exactly right. The 3rd stringer in the barn beats the reigning horse of the year, pretty much GUTS her

BUT here (and on other forums)

it's really all about how the connections want to PROTECT a horse that's 15 for 15 ; in this case by not running her caddy against her.

Nothing like emulating Mike the Eunuch.

There clearly are ducking Zenyatta to protect Zenyatta's record

Zetcher has been quoted as wanting "to be in the big races" for the past month.

And now all of a sudden he changes his mind and decides a race with a lesser purse at Churchill is more important?

It's more likely Shirreffs had a talk with him or that Zetcher realized it would be a conflict of interest

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

There clearly are ducking Zenyatta to protect Zenyatta's record

Zetcher has been quoted as wanting "to be in the big races" for the past month.

And now all of a sudden he changes his mind and decides a race with a lesser purse at Churchill is more important?

It's more likely Shirreffs had a talk with him or that Zetcher realized it would be a conflict of interest

...wow

[Theatrical]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Zardana ducks Zenyatta!

If Zenyatta was truly the best, why is Shirreffs afraid of running Zardana?

Oh well, it's a conflict of interest probably. If Zardana was kept in the race, Shirreffs could have very well undertrained Zardana somehow because his heart is set on Zenyatta winning.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=5032043

"The Apple Blossom field will not include Zardana or Rachel Alexandra, one-two finishers in the New Orleans Ladies at Fair Grounds on March 13. Shirreffs and owner Arnold Zetcher said Friday that Zardana will skip the Apple Blossom on April 9 and point instead for the Grade 2 La Troienne Stakes on April 30 at Churchill Downs. Zardana "could use a little time off," Zetcher said. He and Shirreffs also believe the 1 1/16-mile distance of the La Troienne suits Zardana more than the 1 1/8-mile Apple Blossom. "

You may be right. Mr. Shirreffs is so set on keeping Zenyatta undefeated he put her in the BCC to face males and run 1 1/4 miles for her first time at both.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by Theatrical

You may be right. Mr. Shirreffs is so set on keeping Zenyatta undefeated he put her in the BCC to face males and run 1 1/4 miles for her first time at both.

He waited all year, never doing anything different in So Cal, until he ran her in that one interesting race.

Half the field didn't have a chance in that race because they were dirt horses.

Put her in a decent campaign in a wider variety of places against quality horses, and see what happens. She would have great wins, but she wouldn't be invincible.

[Theatrical]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

He waited all year, never doing anything different in So Cal, until he ran her in that one interesting race.

Half the field didn't have a chance in that race because they were dirt horses.

Put her in a decent campaign in a wider variety of places against quality horses, and see what happens. She would have great wins, but she wouldn't be invincible.

Do you have an 800 number I can call to have you tell me my future?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Let's be clear, I made a general statement that anybody that would campaign their top class horses with those things (ie money records, unbeaten streaks) in mind is making a mistake. Now, did I disagree with you and say Jess Jackson wouldn't do it?

Let's talk in the present tense then, 2009 is in the past, that debate has been discussed to death. if the Apple Blossom goes off with Zenyatta in it, in your opinion who is taking more chances thus far in 2010 and secondly who is protecting their reputation now?

[DaTruth]

Did the BC Classic runners happen to finish 1-2-3 in the Dubai World Cup?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by CSC

Let's talk in the present tense then, 2009 is in the past, that debate has been discussed to death. if the Apple Blossom goes off with Zenyatta in it, in your opinion who is taking more chances thus far in 2010 and secondly who is protecting their reputation now?

I know what you're getting at, but the difference is current form. From her 2010 race, Rachel Alexandra is not the same horse she was last year. Simply put, Zenyatta would dust her at this point in time. As any objective race fan would wish, both horses should be 100% for a matchup with this much ridiculous build-up.

The gripe with Zenyatta has been that she's been at the top of her game and taken more conservative routes. To some degree this is because the BC was at SA the last two years (some of it probably has to do with her unbeaten record, too), but when her connections start sounding off about her "other worldly" abilities and set up a massive spin machine, inevitably people want to see these proclaimations verified on the racetrack.

The Vanity-Clement Hirsch-Lady's Secret Triple Burger King Paper Crown doesn't quite cut it.

[TouchOfGrey]

The gripe with Zenyatta has been that she's been at the top of her game and taken more conservative routes. To some degree this is because the BC was at SA the last two years (some of it probably has to do with her unbeaten record, too), but when her connections start sounding off about her "other worldly" abilities and set up a massive spin machine, inevitably people want to see these proclaimations verified on the racetrack.

This. Exactly.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by TouchOfGrey

This. Exactly.

That avatar is soooo cute!

[Smooth Operator]

Zetch must've enjoyed watching his mare take down that paper champion at FG so much that he wants to try to do it again in the Troienne.

Do you think the paper champ will show for that CD contest … or will she duck little z now?????

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Zetch must've enjoyed watching his mare take down that paper champion at FG so much that he wants to try to do it again in the Troienne.

Do you think the paper champ will show for that CD contest … or will she duck little z now?????

Do you pat yourself on the back after every one of these clever posts of yours?