Adagio claims?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What I argued with was you saying everyone and their brother, essentially, was going to go in for the horse.

If you had started out by saying one guy, and a guy who has claimed from Dutrow before, would take him, this entire conversation wouldn't have taken place.

Andy, I said three guys, all specific to Arlington. All three aggressive claiming guys.

Listen, I am done and over with this. This got way out of hand and way too serious for how it should have been.

People, including myself, could have actually learned something, instead they saw two grown men bicker

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Scav

Andy, I said three guys, all specific to Arlington. All three aggressive claiming guys.

Listen, I am done and over with this. This got way out of hand and way too serious for how it should have been.

People, including myself, could have actually learned something, instead they saw two grown men bicker

I enjoyed it.

[10 pnt move up]

This is great stuff

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

This is great stuff

Clearly Im not the only one who enjoyed it.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I enjoyed it.

ricky did to

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Scav

Andy, I said three guys, all specific to Arlington. All three aggressive claiming guys.

Listen, I am done and over with this. This got way out of hand and way too serious for how it should have been.

People, including myself, could have actually learned something, instead they saw two grown men bicker

The bickering is because you took it off topic ( and I contributed with my ill-advised joke for sure ) by acting as though disagreeing is personal and suggesting a lot of unnecessary things.

Yes, Scav, you said three Arlington guys. What you don't seem to get is what that implies....and I think you are dead wrong about this. It implies that only these midwest trainers have access to Starter Handicaps and/or understand the value of claiming a horse that is eligible for them.

[blackthroatedwind]

It also suggests Rick Dutrow, who's pretty sharp, isn't particularly aware of this.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It also suggests Rick Dutrow, who's pretty sharp, isn't particularly aware of this.

Ya kidding right..


FOR SALE

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It also suggests Rick Dutrow, who's pretty sharp, isn't particularly aware of this.

I'm sure you've seen this move by Dutrow more than a few times over the years in New York...and it's probably safe to say most of the people who filled out a claim slip didn't really get any type of bargain.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

I'm sure you've seen this move by Dutrow more than a few times over the years in New York...and it's probably safe to say most of the people who filled out a claim slip didn't really get any type of bargain.

Sometimes yes and sometime no. Wasn't Digger claimed from Dutrow?

Successful claiming trainers are good because they run horses where they belong and they also take advantage of the fact that often people are afraid to claim from them ( and sometimes rightfully so ) and can thus run horses cheaper than, theoretically, they should...and still keep the horse. It's convenient for people to say " oh, that guy cheats, don't claim from him " but it's a lot more complicated than that. Dutrow has been accused of a lot of things....but I have never heard anyone smart say he isn't a very good trainer.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sometimes yes and sometime no. Wasn't Digger claimed from Dutrow?

Successful claiming trainers are good because they run horses where they belong and they also take advantage of the fact that often people are afraid to claim from them ( and sometimes rightfully so ) and can thus run horses cheaper than, theoretically, they should...and still keep the horse. It's convenient for people to say " oh, that guy cheats, don't claim from him " but it's a lot more complicated than that. Dutrow has been accused of a lot of things....but I have never heard anyone smart say he isn't a very good trainer.

You missed a thread on here....

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sometimes yes and sometime no. Wasn't Digger claimed from Dutrow?

Successful claiming trainers are good because they run horses where they belong and they also take advantage of the fact that often people are afraid to claim from them ( and sometimes rightfully so ) and can thus run horses cheaper than, theoretically, they should...and still keep the horse. It's convenient for people to say " oh, that guy cheats, don't claim from him " but it's a lot more complicated than that. Dutrow has been accused of a lot of things....but I have never heard anyone smart say he isn't a very good trainer.

Yes... and I don't remember for sure but I think it was for about $30k.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sometimes yes and sometime no. Wasn't Digger claimed from Dutrow?

Successful claiming trainers are good because they run horses where they belong and they also take advantage of the fact that often people are afraid to claim from them ( and sometimes rightfully so ) and can thus run horses cheaper than, theoretically, they should...and still keep the horse. It's convenient for people to say " oh, that guy cheats, don't claim from him " but it's a lot more complicated than that. Dutrow has been accused of a lot of things....but I have never heard anyone smart say he isn't a very good trainer.

Makes sense. Yeah I forgot about Digger being taken from Dutrow...so as with most anything there are no absolutes...just have to weigh the risk vs reward and do your homework.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The bickering is because you took it off topic ( and I contributed with my ill-advised joke for sure ) by acting as though disagreeing is personal and suggesting a lot of unnecessary things.

Yes, Scav, you said three Arlington guys. What you don't seem to get is what that implies....and I think you are dead wrong about this. It implies that only these midwest trainers have access to Starter Handicaps and/or understand the value of claiming a horse that is eligible for them.

It does not imply that at all, but whatever. We all read things differently.

My first post was specific to Arlington, as it says. I didn't mention any other trainers or their thoughts, at all.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Scav

It does not imply that at all, but whatever. We all read things differently.

My first post was specific to Arlington, as it says. I didn't mention any other trainers or there thoughts, at all.

You're not really listening. You're just trying to defend your side.

Why were these guys all going in, theoretically, on Wednesday when nobody went in for the horse in the past? If you are saying it's because these specific trainers weren't eligible to claim in NY, or paying attention, then you are really missing the point.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You're not really listening. You're just trying to defend your side.

Why were these guys all going in, theoretically, on Wednesday when nobody went in for the horse in the past? If you are saying it's because these specific trainers weren't eligible to claim in NY, or paying attention, then you are really missing the point.

As I said in my response right afterwards, guarantee was the wrong word.

The guys that I have spoken about never claim out of NY or anywhere they are not located (Calabrese sometimes goes other places, but those are usually private purchases, not claims and he usually doesn't even know about them), but for as long as I can remember, the guys have claimed horses down at Gulfstream to specifically run at Arlington. Now, you will find that hard to believe because obviously targeting Arlington and its races and claiming horses from there probably doesn't make sense, but they do it year after year. They want to win races at Arlington, period. The fact that both of those Dutrows are available for 15k makes them attractive to these guys because these guys look for horses at that specific level.

I don't dispute that others have had the opportunity to take these horses for 25k and passed, but why is it so impossible that the people I am speaking about will not claim them when they have had little opportunity before?

You say Adagio won't be claimed. I think he is a lock to be claimed if he runs, and I wouldn't be shocked that a Chicago guy got him. What other trainers from all over North America target, or what, I have no idea.

I will say that the fact that Rivelli already got one off him weakens my argument, so I am probably relying on Calabrese's two trainers now.

[blackthroatedwind]

I never said he wouldn't be claimed.

Truthfully, if your weren't trying to see this as personal, and actually listened to what I was saying, you wouldn't keep repeating the same things as though they are specifically relevent to the point I am making.

My point has nothing to do, specifically, with the trainers you mentioned. What you refuse to acknowledge, or understand, is that he has been passed on in similar situations before. Starter Handicaps are not specific to Arlington....and every trainer in America knows about them.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I never said he wouldn't be claimed.

Truthfully, if your weren't trying to see this as personal, and actually listened to what I was saying, you wouldn't keep repeating the same things as though they are specifically relevent to the point I am making.

My point has nothing to do, specifically, with the trainers you mentioned. What you refuse to acknowledge, or understand, is that he has been passed on in similar situations before. Starter Handicaps are not specific to Arlington....and every trainer in America knows about them.

This isn't personal anymore. I can care less about that part of all this now.

You are saying I refuse to acknowledge that he was passed up. I can obviously see he was passed for 25k. But the starter races in the midwest go for 16k and 5k, I think NY goes for 40 and they might even have a never won attached to them, I don't know. Philly rarely runs a starter handicap without a never condition attached to it.

The fact that he is in for 15k opens up a whole new horizon of available races for outfits that regularly target those races. F'n Maker is gonna be all over this horse also.

And quite honestly, how I see it, is that Dutrow wants this horse to be claimed, and knows someone aggressive is going to claim to see what they end up getting and I am hoping that someone gets him from Chicago, so I can bet against the f'n horse.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Scav

As I said in my response right afterwards, guarantee was the wrong word.

The guys that I have spoken about never claim out of NY or anywhere they are not located (Calabrese sometimes goes other places, but those are usually private purchases, not claims and he usually doesn't even know about them), but for as long as I can remember, the guys have claimed horses down at Gulfstream to specifically run at Arlington. Now, you will find that hard to believe because obviously targeting Arlington and its races and claiming horses from there probably doesn't make sense, but they do it year after year. They want to win races at Arlington, period. The fact that both of those Dutrows are available for 15k makes them attractive to these guys because these guys look for horses at that specific level.

I don't dispute that others have had the opportunity to take these horses for 25k and passed, but why is it so impossible that the people I am speaking about will not claim them when they have had little opportunity before?

You say Adagio won't be claimed. I think he is a lock to be claimed if he runs, and I wouldn't be shocked that a Chicago guy got him. What other trainers from all over North America target, or what, I have no idea.

I will say that the fact that Rivelli already got one off him weakens my argument, so I am probably relying on Calabrese's two trainers now.

Why not some type of wager? He will or wont be claimed.... I like it... Lets actually start a poll. If I knew how to, I would.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Scav

As I said in my response right afterwards, guarantee was the wrong word.

The guys that I have spoken about never claim out of NY or anywhere they are not located (Calabrese sometimes goes other places, but those are usually private purchases, not claims and he usually doesn't even know about them), but for as long as I can remember, the guys have claimed horses down at Gulfstream to specifically run at Arlington. Now, you will find that hard to believe because obviously targeting Arlington and its races and claiming horses from there probably doesn't make sense, but they do it year after year. They want to win races at Arlington, period. The fact that both of those Dutrows are available for 15k makes them attractive to these guys because these guys look for horses at that specific level.

I don't dispute that others have had the opportunity to take these horses for 25k and passed, but why is it so impossible that the people I am speaking about will not claim them when they have had little opportunity before?

You say Adagio won't be claimed. I think he is a lock to be claimed if he runs, and I wouldn't be shocked that a Chicago guy got him. What other trainers from all over North America target, or what, I have no idea.

I will say that the fact that Rivelli already got one off him weakens my argument, so I am probably relying on Calabrese's two trainers now.

Obviously a guy with Calabrese's money can take a shot for $15,000...if he ends up eating him...eh move on to the next one. Too many of those kind of mistakes and most likely a trainer change would be on the horizon.